“In the first place God made idiots. This was for practice. Then he made School Boards” … from The Pudd’nhead Maxims, Mark Twain
It’s over. The Greatest Needs Bond effort has come to an end. It is dead. It never caught on with the public. The board of Education never did much with it except pay some lip service to the effort. There were no minutes or record of attendance or list of members that ever appeared on anyone website. It may have been a dedicated group that was concerned about the whole county or just a certain area of the county. We don’t know.
After a reported series of meetings over several months it seem to come down to, “ok, we’ll get the school administration to have the schools submit a list of their greatest needs and then we will compile a list and recommend it as the basis for a bond”. One person who attended only one meeting described it as a debating society about why their children should not be re-districted. Who knows? But it is over with little documentation that will live on to guide any useful future effort.
One high school school was audacious enough to recommend that someone Else’s school should be physically removed next to their facility. And it was taken seriously as a “greatest need” for that school, even though it was outside the scope of the original mission of the “Greatest Needs Bond Committee”. Under that logic, a school like South Harrison could have just as easily recommended that a certain school NOT be built. Like the one at Charles Pointe. And that recommendation should have received equal weight.
Then the Bond Committee spokesperson has the audacity to suggest that the committee actually seriously evaluated alternatives in some disinterested way. As when she stated that the Committee decided that a new WI school should only go next to RCB rather than alternative sites that a municipal government would like considered. Even though the final report was silent on a new school entirely. Or, that a new Lumberport Middle School could only be built next to Lincoln. The Committee’s credibility took an accelerated dive when the chairman started making judgments not arrived at by the other un-named committee members.
For this bond to have gone forward would have required a great deal of planning that will not get done even before the general election. It is time to recognize that a good bond is more of a two year process rather than a six to nine month process. The similar lack of understanding by the School Board and the School Administration had a lot to do with the failure of the original bond failure. If they keep slapping together lists of things to do and calling it a bond, it still won’t fool the public. The public wants to see the plans; the long-term as well. Where are you taking us in all of this? What comes after the next bond? How are you planning to raise all of the county’s schools to the level of Bridgeport’s? What is the plan to upgrade or replace every school?
In my opinion, some experts may be needed to help understand school bond requirements. However, we do not need experts to help the school board game the electorate to figure out how to get a defective bond passed.
Do we need a school at Charles Pointe?
Everyone agrees that a new Lumberport Middle School should be built. How important is it if it stays in Lumberport vs Shinnston? Is Big Elm too crowded? Nutter Fort Elementary too crowded? Are you willing to pay more taxes to de-consolidate and bring some of the grade schools back within the original communities? How about a series of pre-K through 3rd grade schools closer to home to reduce over-crowding? The South Harrison area had been ignored for years.
How much taxes are you willing to pay each year? What is your breaking point?
Which schools should be consolidated?
Should continuing maintenance and equipment upgrades be left outside of school bonds and be part of the normal school budget?
What should the next bond really cover? What should be the process with working those issues with the municipal and county governments?
Filed under: Board of Education, Charles Pointe, Charles Pointe and Schools, City of Clarksburg, Economic Development, Education of Children, Elected Officials, Nutter Fort, School Bond
Blogger,
I’ve never really been interested in knowing who you may be, but after this blog, I feel like we have talked at some point.
The ‘Greatest Needs’ lists from each school is a great starting point. The list from the school’s staff, the central office staff, and input from public citizens should all be considered as components for the next bond. Therefore, the LSIC’s top ten lists are great info to have going into this process, but it should not be THE process.
When the next (and hopefully much better) bond is written, some will ask “Why is XYZ school being replaced? What’s wrong with it?” I think having input from all the components I listed above will add credibility to the answers given to such questions.
I’ve said before, a major component to developing a bond should come from the guidance of a masterplan. A comprehensive facilities plan that is longer than 10 years. If bonds are 15 to 20 years, than a true plan shall span at least twice that time.
I’d like to see a 40-50 year school replacement/maintenance plan implemented.
You ask the questions, “Are you willing to pay more taxes to de-consolidate and bring some of the grade schools back within the original communities?” and “How much taxes are you willing to pay each year? What is your breaking point?” “Which schools should be consolidated?” “Should continuing maintenance and equipment upgrades be left outside of school bonds and be part of the normal school budget?”
I agree with asking these questions, but how do we do it? Maybe Mr. Queen was onto something last night when speaking of hiring a professional firm that surveys these type of questions.
Mr Vincent,
As far as I know , we have never talked. Some of us have been saying these things for years. It comes down to executive management skills, in my book. We always welcome new converts to the cause.
Discovery learning by school board members is an expensive proposition for the taxpayers. These are old persistent problems that should have been addressed on a continual basis for many years as part of the normal oversight provided to the administrators by Board Members. In this they have failed.
Will the hiring of a professional firm allow members to duck and hide? Will it allow them to avoid responsibility for what they should have been doing all along? I don’t know at this point. I missed the comments made last night and cannot tell from the newspaper article how it fits into the master plan concept that some of us have been after for multiple years. Welcome aboard.
All I have to say is in response to Mr. Blogger’s last question. I don’t want the City Council from Bridgeport representing my town in any meetings with the HCBE or Sup. Friebel. We’ve heard enough from them by supporting the mayor to go tell the HCBE that we all wanted a school at Charles Pointe. You can’t find 1% of people in Bridgeport that want that school. I hope Charleston doesn’t give them the money to build it. We all better stay away from city governments unless they can show they had a town meeting and they are representing what their people want not just the politicians want.
I think we know the answers to these questions. At least the BOE should. The board ran their dog and pony show all over the county at the “feeder” school meetings. The meetings were a great idea, the outcome however, was a bond that showed us that no board officials were listening.
No $$ for a school at Charles Pointe
No $$ for field turf
No $$ for a new middle at RCB (or at all)
Should have built Lumberport Middle 5 years ago
Should have finnished Liberty Athletic Complex with left over money from the original bond!
Deconsolidate the largest elementary school in the state.
Hire some one with leadership abilities to lead our administrators (this would be a new superintendent)
We don’t mind being taxed, just don’t spend it on an over staffed board office. Spend it where we can see it working, in the class rooms!
Vote for two new members not from the BOE club.
Vote for change, not more of the same
Vote for two competant candidates that value the childrens education over personal agendas.
Vote for two. If someone is telling you to single shot them, it is because they are not the right person for the job. Look who they run with, look where they are comming from
This is the most important election in Harrison Co. in a very long time. Lets turn the heat up on these board members and candidates. Find out where they stand and spread the word.
How nice! And what TIMING . A wonderful contract to Cubby’s( in CP) for the future Pre-K. And an application pending for a CP school with SBA. Anyone detect a connection? Hint: it is not location.
I am not a PR for Mr. Queen’s wed site but folks, you need to go read it now. He has been in the kool-aid.
Move over O’Reilly – we have the hands down world candidate for “Pinhead” of 2008 and it is only February!
He wants to “hear” about three new survey questions. He (they) have not paid attention to anything the taxpayers have said to date and now he wants to spend > $40,000 for more surveys.
I would like to congratulate Cubby’s Daycare Center for the awarded contract. The company is owned and operated by citizens of Bridgeport. The women their do a tremendous job and should be applauded for their work. The location of their facilities should not be questioned. They tried to build a larger facility in Bridgeport but were voted down by the citizens. Once again congratulations.
I too applaud , on this blog and in the community, the Cubby’s Day Care Center and all of their staff. They provide a valuable service to the Harrison County community. They are but one of several businesses that once located in another section of Bridgeport that choose to move to Charles Pointe – thankfully staying in the City. Their management saw a need for this service and stepped up to make it available. Congratulations!
Dear Be Informed,
PLEEEZE PAAAAAY CLOOOOOOSSSE ATTENTIONNNNNN!
The reason they call them “surveys” is because answering them allows people to express their opinions. Not everyone logs on to this blog so the website gives voters, taxpayers and parents another way to communicate with me.
I want to better understand where people are on the issues. My website helps me do that. Rather than to participate and to encourage others to partcipate (even though they may not like me) you still revert to personal attacks. Wow! What a miserable, unfulfilled life you must have that you feel that name calling gets your point across.
I read your comments here and I try to respond. When is the last time any of the other school board members have done that for you. Have any of them asked you your opinion?
Like me or not, you know where I stand. I take positions and I have reserved my right to change my mind at times — once right here on this blog!
The issues we discussed at the last school board meeting had to do with:
1. Hiring a research/marketing company to tell us what a large sample of the voters want or do not want in a school bond, and,
2. Hiring an engineering firm to evaluate the eight Harrison County schools we need to replace over the next 20 years and to place those eight schools on a priority list.
I am not sure that I support either 1 or 2….but I am willing to ask others for their thoughts to see what Harrison County voters would like for me (and the school board) to do.
If doing all of this makes me a “pinhead” in your book, then so be it.
I’m asking people their opinion because I think that’s what responsible elected officials should do.
Regarding the Pre-K program in Bridgeport….it wasn’t Cubby’s who found a solution to that problem. It was the school board.
Thanks to a group of parents who stepped up and asked that the program be continued, the school board investigated several options.
The school board, working with the parents, went to Cubby’s and asked to rent their old building. Yes, Cubby’s agreed to our proposal for them to partner with the school board to offer the program.
But since you are so quick to throw the school board under the bus for everything we do — once in a while you need to mention that we get it right, too!
This time we got it right!
Mike Queen
Mike Queen:
PPLLEEEEAAASSSEEE QQUUITT DDDOOIINNGGG TTHHISS!
It is annoying, but thanks for answering questions.
MIKE QUEEN,
Thanks from the “Moms” for putting the link on your website. We think you are a fair guy.
Keep listening to the “Moms” and you will go far.
Hee Hee!
MR QUEEN: Perhaps my post was too direct. Perhaps. You and this Board were clearly told last Spring, by your taxpayers, that any bond call needs to be supported by FACT. Just having you and the other gentleman, sorry I forgot his name, say the bond call should be passed was just not good enough.
You posted Blackwood toured every school – what was his report? MSES attended all Board meetings – what did they report ? You defended their professionalism but apparently not to the point of trusting their opinions.
Mr. Queen – once confidence lost ! Ring a bell. All of the websites, emails, newsletters, private indoctrination sessions for candidates, etc. will not automatically bring public’s confidence – in you or in this Board.
By your own words – “I’m asking people their opinion because I think that’s what responsible elected officials should do”.
You support the SBA application for the CP school.
Can you produce the written results of the survey of the taxpayers supporting your submission to the SBA for Charles Pointe?
You say that two story elementary school construction is a mistake. Can you produce the written results of your survey of engineering and architectural firms that say “two story” elementary schools are not correct to build?
Can you produce the results of your survey of the taxpayers of Lumberport-Shinnston that supports your refusal to seek SBA funding for a badly needed school in their area ( badly needed for years before Mountaineer Middle and, without argument, the CP school project) .
And please do not give us your often repeated excuse about “I need two other voters on this Board to agree with my thinking”. Apparently they all agreed with YOUR idea of the “Greatest Needs” committees while they ( the Board) wasted nine valuable months accomplishing nothing on their own! For more than once you have posted that the Board had nothing to do with the preparation of “Greatest Needs” proposal.
Mr. Queen, I am well into my years -some might say quite old fashion and they would be right. “What a miserable, unfulfilled life you must have..” just the opposite I assure you. At times, I appear critical of you and your rotating positions. You are a tough read. This blog and your website are my prime sources for keeping in touch with the area. As you have posted the local papers often do not get the numbers correct….and I find the few stories are only what the Board wants to appear in the paper. No real investigative journalism which may be to the benefit of the Board but detriment to the County and more so to the students and teachers.
And as long as our Father allows me such time I shall continue to follow the local events. Ensure (nasty stuff) time so I’ll close.
God Bless.
them there people at cubby’s dropped my kid on his head and acted like it was no big deal. Spatafore owns the place and a Spatafore is on the school building authority in charleston Do we all look that stupid? JSP
Be Informed,
PLEASE understand that a “replacement” school for Lumberport Middle School would not be a priority for the SBA.
SBA grants are awarded for (1) economies of scale (which is another term for consolidation), (2) for areas experiencing and demonstrating growth, and (3) for major improvements needed for the health and safety of the students and staff or for the permanent replacement of modular classrooms.
Now you might think that a new Lumberport Middle would qualify under No. 3……but major improvement grants right now are limited to $500,000.
If you go to my website, you can click on the WV SCHOOL BUILDING AUTHORITY link and read this for yourself.
Mountaineer Middle was funded by the SBA because the county consolidated Salem Middle and Gore Middle as well as leading to the consolidation of Van Horn and Harden into one school (in the old Salem Middle building).
As far as the engineering reports for the eight schools that need replaced — I was told right here on this blog that the public didn’t trust Blackwood’s report or MSES’s report. One blogger went as far as to suggest that none of the local engineers should do the report.
These eight schools are REPLACEMENT schools which means until the SBA changes their rules for grants applications that Harrison County will have to pay for them with a new bond. I want to see a priority list for the eight schools. Which one should be built first, then second , third and so on.
You and I are certainly not qualified to do that now are we?
Surely an independent engineering firm could take the info we already have from Blackwood and MSES and confer with the school board’s maintenance staff BEFORE they actually make a site visit to each of the eight schools.
Now that makes sense to me.
And since you never seem to remember the entire story…..allow me to clarify my position on two story schools. State law prohobits Pre-K, K, 1st and 2nd graders from attending class on the second floor or a building.
It seems to me that a single floor building is better for the students….safer….better for the staff….easier to maintain….and less expensive to make renovations or additions to. Think about a one-story house vs. a two story house.
After I read on this blog that Mon County has a two-story elementary school I drove there to see it. It was nice but located on a very small lot.
I checked into the cost and the two-story structure is actually a little MORE expensive then a single level school.
By the way, you can check all of that out by going to the resource links on my website.
And now, Paul “Be Informed” Harvey, the readers know the rest of the story.
Mike
Mike, are these your opinions or facts, because you state them as gospel.
What type of structure is more economical to operate, ranch (long) or 2 story of same sq footage? A 2 story is. Less roof, more economical to heat and cool, Less distance to run water and sewage lines to inside fixtures as they can be place above each other instead of opposite ends of bldg., leaves more green space, more parking etc…. a one story is good for the elderly. AND besides those advantages of a 2 story, many modern two story structures in WV use the terrain to offer natural handicapped access to both floors.
And how is it cheaper to make additions onto a single story structue compared to a 2 story. Both have the advantage of adding “finished” space right beside the current structure.
Does the Pre-k thru 2nd have to use both floors? And why is it better for staff? So they don’t have to “walk up stairs”? And I think our staff for the most part are great in this county.
The school in Morgantown is on a small lot. However, is the reason for this because it is located in their community ?
Mike, its not that we (or at least I don’t) have a problem with Blackwood or MSES. I think we all know that when someone is doing consulting work for you, they want to present something favorable to you. That’s how they get referrals. I don’t care for your Super! or the way he manages our principals or the maintenance of our schools.
Mike, I voted for two non incumbents last school board election. You spoke of real change, and I still believe that we need that change. You now endorse a candidate from the system. Is he on board with you to do the things you wanted (and TRIED) to do back in Sept. and Oct. 2006. Is “your” candidate ready and able to pull the trigger or is he “friends” with to many of the central staff to help you make any changes. Are we, Harrison County Residents going to see this through with two new officials. What will be done, when you have 3 votes?
ps
I would also think Lumberport Middle would qualify. If you look under the SBA’s “needs funding” http://www.wvs.state.wv.us/wvsba/Handbook/app%20f.pdf 1.a(1) states health and safety. Did anyone apply or ask about this.
Now let’s apply Mr. Queen’s learned words to the CP application which the Board has directed Dr. Friebel to present on behalf of the taxpayers (perhaps more importantly the students and teachers of Harrison County ) because ……
SBA grants are awarded for “(1) economies of scale (which is another term for consolidation)”,
N/A – CP school is not a consolidation.
SBA grants are awarded for “(2) for areas experiencing and demonstrating growth,”
N/A – CP school’s often stated purpose is for transfers from Johnson and Simpson with hopes of easing (not solving) their overcrowding. Growth is considered new student increases not simply transfers. And this is a school designed for an estimated 330(?) transfer students.
*****************************************************
And, Mr. Queen, Home Rule is not going to occur in Bridgeport so do not count on its Mayor and City Council to build a bigger school for the HCBE.
******************************************************
Where is this Board planning for the “growth” (new) students from the 1000’s of single family homes to be built in CP (source: CP web site). And when – last time I was driven by that area is was still beautiful cow pasture. Send them to Johnson? Simpson? Perhaps to the RCB feeder schools – Bridgeport has been taking theirs for years.
Let’s move on …..
SBA grants are awarded for “(3) for major improvements needed for the health and safety of the students and staff OR for the permanent replacement of modular classrooms”.
N/A – simply not the case
Three N/As. Dr. Friebel’s five minute presentation wasted. Harrison County students and teachers and Moms and Dads again the loosers. Let’s all move onto the indoctrination sessions for candidates on how not to run a school board.
IMHO — I think ( by listening to the taxpayes) ‘” the Board’” should have directed Dr. Friebel to present this application for SBA funding for the L-S area based on both #2 and #3 – if the Board truely believed in the taxpayers and listened to
“their opinion because I think that’s what responsible elected officials should do.”
That listening does not stop with this Board so Dr.Friebel’s remarks would reflect the CURRENT needs and desires of today’s taxpayers of Harrison County – and not the future dreams of any developer(s).
SBA members- including our local Mr. Louis Spatafore – should also listen.
There are students( and teachers) in NEED right now – today – in the L-S area. Growth(#2) in any area is unsustainable without good community based schools. Look at areas of Clarksburg. Still, a new housing project along US 19 N near the new Gypsy Bridge( built because of increased area traffic from “growth”) has on their front gate today – ALL LOTS SOLD. I mean today – not years from now. There is growth in the L-S area today and growth will continue in that area. The City of Shinnston has a pro-active Council. True also of Lumberport. These people care ! They live in Harrison County today ! Their kids attend Harrison County schools today. Not everyone will be able to afford the scale of “potential” housing in CP, Heritage Farm, or Crystal Ridge. There are also a lot of new homes along Saltwell toward Shinnston.
And no additional surveys or inspections will change the physical conditions(#3 – health and safety) at L-S. There is a huge “OR” in #3. #3 is not restricted to modular classroom replacement.
Board decisions – then their directives – require a compassion and empathy and logic absent of personal agenda ( perceived or real) so that we can say —- “once in a while you need to mention that we get it right, too! ”
Mr. Queen, I am sure the taxpayers -the students, the teachers, the Moms and Dads, the people of WV – would be more than willing to make that statement over and over and over again – if and when. The SBA application is not right ! For this year – 2008 . This is defined by your learned words.
I appreciate your reference to me as “Paul Harvey”. A much better compliment than one much too often applying to this Board of a long necked bird from Australia with its head in the sand.
Thank you and God Bless.
REX — while I was busy on the above, you jumped in on the one story – two story building cost issue. Great post and right on target !
Not all of us are happy about the Cubby’s contract. The neighbors around Cubby’s are dreading the traffic problems that will return when this school is opened. Do you believe that people taking their children to Cubby’s actually park in the middle of the street and people living around Cubby’s can’t even get to or from their own homes? If they are going to make this a school again, then they need to make more off-street parking. Either buy the empty lot beside them or cut down on the playground. With all that money the county is going to give them, plus the money they will make on the after school care, they can afford to make more parking spaces. (I was also told by a former customer of Cubby’s that if the county checked the buildings for mold, they wouldn’t dream of placing children in there again.)
REX,
You took the words right out of my mouth!
Mr. Queen,
Make sure that you are comparing the cost of a 1 story school for 550 to a 2 story school for 550 (at 85% capacity). There is no way that the 1 story cost less to build or will cost less to operate.
Dear Rex and Diana,
I looked at two separate scenarios for commercial structures meeting the requirements set forth for new school construction aproved by the State Board of Education. Both schools were for 330 students (at 85%). The price per square foot was higher (by $3.14/sq. ft)) for a two-story structure.
You don’t have to have an elevator in a two-story house. You don’t have to have separate boys and girls handicapped accessible restrooms in a private residence. In an elementary school you have to meet special specs for concrete stairwells with an intricate railing system so that small student will not be able to slip between the railings and fall.
And Diana, your dad should know that commercial roof systems are much more expensive than residential structures.
Remember, we are talking about elementary schools here.
Do your homework!
Dear Rex,
You don’t trust the school board to prioritize the replacement school list and I wouldn’t trust you to do it.
You seem to know everything, so how do you suggest we prioritize a list that will get the confidence of the voters?
Regarding my endorsement of Mr. Reider – I’m not 100% sure of anything!
But I believe Mr. Reider when he tells me that he will support my efforts to (1) reduce large salary supplements for the top administrators (2) to eliminate some of the top administrative positions in the Central Office, (3) develop a long term plan to replace schools in this county, (4) to hold school board meetings no earlier than 6pm and to demand that all top administrators attend each meeting, (5) to begin a search for a new superintendent and (6) to make it easier for taxpayers to understand how every dime is spent by the school board.
Which candidates are you supporting and why?
Dear Concerned Citizen,
I don’t like the contract with Cubby’s either. But the school board had NO other options – unless we wanted to do nothing and not serve some 60 families who have Pre-K age children.
If we already had the third elementary school in Bridgeport, we could offer Pre-K programs at Johnson, Simpson and the new school — and by doing so keep children in their neighborhoods.
Mike
I don’t even see why we are arguing about the schools. I heard both Senator Obama and Senator Clinton’s speeches on C-SPAN. They both said that they wanted to fund new schools and increase teachers salaries.
If we all vote right in November whichever one becomes president is going to relieve us of this shortfall in funds and we can all get new schools. Let the Federal government do it!
You know our congressional delegation will support this. We can afford to postpone all of this and get it for free. Just keep the Republicans out of office. All the members of the current Board are Democrats and will continue to work with our Party to ensure that we get what we need,
I think Rex and Mr Queen both know a lot. They just have a different perspective. You guys should be cooperating. Good points from Rex that were worthy of consideration and an answer.
Keep the Faith! Keep the Conservatives out of government and we can get it all without much trouble.
Mr. Queen – gotta hand it to you, you days of being in the legislature served you well. You ask the voters for their opinion and then want to argue with them when it does not match your own. they are just that opinions, but you have to be right. I guess we’ll see if that way of thinking works in about 4 years huh.
Anyway, your comment about roofs, “And Diana, your dad should know that commercial roof systems are much more expensive than residential structures.” Well sir it doesn’t matter if it is a ONE story SCHOOL or a TWO story SCHOOL, they both need roofs. The thing about a two story school roof is that it can be half the size as the one story school if bulit properly. Again, put your excalim points through your comments !!!!!!, but you again have proven nothing except trying to promote your opinion as fact rather than realizing the voters may have a point.
Sir I don’t have any thing agianst you or this board, but it is obvious that you and the other boards members are not listening to the voters.
Growing up I went to a grade school that was two stories, all of my children have gone to grade schools that were two stories, but all of the sudden there is this BIG SCARY PROBLEM with two story schools. You won’t even consider the other point of view. It has been stated on this blog and others on this site that Monongalia built two new elementary schools and they were both two story buildings. Must not be all that bad. If you can look at your comments objectively to an outsider it looks like this is your EXCUSE to support the Charles Pointe School. I am not saying this IS your excuse, I am saying looking from the outside it could be perceived that way.
In your rebuttal above you stated building costs would be more, “The price per square foot was higher (by $3.14/sq. ft)) for a two-story structure.” and “commercial roof systems are much more expensive than residential structures.”, but you don’t respond to the fact that operating costs would be less. If indeed the operating costs would be less, which incidently I believe is the truth, over time I am sure these lower operating costs would offset any extra up front costs. So are you looking at the 20 year term that you refer to or just YOUR personal wishes.
Just an observation, but unfortunately you will once again, probably, BLOG back at me why your OPINION is more RIGHT than my OPINION.
Party Loyalist,
you do sound like a true democrat, I will hand it to you on that one.
Your solution is to sit around and wait for someone else (the federal government) to fix our problems for us. Maybe if we sit around and do nothing long enough, they will pay for our child care and the Pre-K problem will go away, they can pay for our health care and the UHC can have two campuses and solve that problem, heck maybe if we sit around and wait for a really LONG time, they’ll pay for all emergency services too, then the Fire-service fee for the sub-station at Charles Point issue will be resolved as well.
Great thinking.
In November, I know where I am voting, and it isn’t to sit and wait for someone else to do it for me.
Mr. Queen,
You state that the difference is $3.14 per square foot.
I would assume that since the recommended size of the elementary school classroom in the United States is approximately 900 Square feet, and would house 20 students, then a school size for 390 students would require 20 classrooms, that is 18,000 square feet, plus multipurpose rooms, so lets say it’s a 30,000 sf facility. That would be a cost difference of $94,200.
That $94k could easily be saved in property aquisition alone. This is not to mention lower operation costs.
I don’t see the money as being an argument against 2 story schools.
I will add that in all equal things considered, I’d rather see 1-story schools, but sometimes that may not be the best answer.
Mike: I assume the ‘Diana’ you are addressing above is me, only because my father is a roofing contractor and I have asked many questions on this site (and 3 people have called me to tell me that you are attacking me on the blog). I think you must be confused. I did not ask you any questions regarding one-story or two-story schools, on this blog. I did not ask you for a comparison of building schools and building residential structures. (Why are you even comparing schools and residential buildings?)
I have no idea why you are talking about what my father “should know. ” Maybe you should be more concerned with what YOU do NOT know. But I DO KNOW this, YOU don’t want to get into an intellectual contest with MY DAD. You are still in the minors compared to him. I thought you didn’t think it was appropriate to discuss people’s family members on this blog. This is twice now that you have spoken of my father on this blog. Do I now have free rein to discuss what your parents “should know”?
You can tell ‘wvurah’ to do their homework, because we both know I do my homework very well.
Maybe you should have done yours before you try to call out someone you GUESS you are talking to.
And just for the record:
A residential roof can cost every bit if not more than a commercial roofing system depending on the size of the structure, type of roof and materials used. Just because a building is designated commercial use doesn’t mean it will cost more than a building designated residential. For example, an EPDM (rubber) roof on a 6,000 sq. ft. business would not necessarily cost more than a standing seam metal roof on a 6,000 sq ft. residence. Mike, you have now been taken to school.
Unprovoked attacks on citizens, not recommended behavior for elected officals.
MIKE QUEEN,
You said above “If we already had the third elementary school in Bridgeport, we could offer Pre-K programs at Johnson, Simpson and the new school — and by doing so keep children in their neighborhoods.”
I DISAGREE. The kids made to go to a Charles Pointe elementary school will be bussed there from other neighborhoods!!!! Why don’t you wait until there are 300 children who live there to go to a neighborhood school instead of bussing our kids out there. You are dead wrong on this one!
Mike; You do not function in the dark of this blog, and
now you are guessing names of bloggers. It is now
apparent that you are getting confused. I saw the
train coming, and it was a matter of time that it would
arrive. You have been “taken to school” because
you are so ‘knowing’. You think you are taking a
stand, but your real problem is that you do not stand there long. You blow with the wind. You must remember the picture. Boy, you really exposed your
FLEXABILITY there. My advise to you, study an issue
lomg and hard before you show your a__.
Whew, they read you pretty good,buddy! Are you still
reeling? Mike, I think you are an OK guy, but you
are afflicted with echolalia….has your Doc. mentioned
this to you. Sumthin like this can hurt a guy runnin
for reelection. You know, us voters have a way of
remembering things that people say before they are
elected, and never forget the things they do while they
serve. You have a slim chance if you are runnin for the
backhouse.
I’m all for this professional survey firm to come into Harrison County and poll the citizens.
First questions on the survey MUST be:
1. Do you favor a school in CP?
2. If so, is that school a priority over L-S middle?
3. If you were a board member and your constituants constantly tell you one thing, do you continue to feel that you know what is best for them, although they don’t see it?
What about on this blog? what’s the answers to those questions?
Mainstreet Survey
1. No, I do not favor a school in CP.
2.
3. No, politicians that forget that they are supposed to VOTE the way the people who VOTED for them want you to aren’t politicians for long.
….ditto for echopraxia …..doing the same thing over and over and over and over while expecting a different result, result, result, result. Like banging, banging, banging your head on a cinder block or…or…or doing some of the other stuff mentioned, mentioned, mentioned, mentioned here by the good folks. Why are we getting the same, same, same result each time, each time, each time.
What are, are, are the unspoken –but incorrect — common denominators in terms of premises, logic, reality and agents ??
And it is more than just the price of roofing. And don’t blame the cinderblock.
But, I digress, and I will yield my time to the next blogger,blogger,blogger who can determine both the position and the momentum of this thread and then put it through the needle.
Finally, finally, finally.
[Damn, this thing hurts...but maybe if I just try it a few more times]
Good morning to all on this the Lord’s day…..
Several of you have been busy.Some really good observations and comments. I think we know more about roof cost and s/f building costs than we did before. A lot of “Paul Harveys” out there.
And Mrs. Marra….I know you picked up on a recent post from Mr. Queen but I’ll ask for comment.
“Surely an independent engineering firm could take the info we already have from Blackwood and MSES…”
So there is information ( we must assume “reports”) available to the Board regarding the schools. You and others have repeatedly asked about this. Perhaps materials that could support or refute the Bridgeport area, the L-S area, the WI Middle area or others in the County. Perhaps we would know WHY the water/sewage situation @ Mountaineer Middle was missed until after the school was occupied.
What say you?
Thank you and God Bless.
MR REIDER — What say you? Is this your campaign pledge to Mr. Queen.
“But I believe Mr. Reider when he tells me that he will support my efforts to (1) reduce large salary supplements for the top administrators (2) to eliminate some of the top administrative positions in the Central Office, (3) develop a long term plan to replace schools in this county, (4) to hold school board meetings no earlier than 6pm and to demand that all top administrators attend each meeting, (5) to begin a search for a new superintendent and (6) to make it easier for taxpayers to understand how every dime is spent by the school board.”
Thank you and God Bless.
How does Charles Pointe qualify for SBA? According to Mr. Queen the criteria for SBA grants are awarded for the following:
(1) Economies of scale (which is another term for consolidation).
Well we know HCBOE loves to consolidate. Their reasoning has always been the bottom line, but I don’t know how building new schools and transporting students further from their communities saves money. (or is safe) I don’t know how they don’t feel some responsibility for the deterioration of our communities. Vacant school buildings are open to vagrants and drug users. The property around it starts to deteriorate and the property values go down. This means less tax dollars going to schools. If they claim they do not intend to close Johnson or Simpson, I wouldn’t believe them because the citizens have heard this before. Keep in mind an SBA school does not need voter approval.
(2) For areas experiencing and demonstrating growth
The HCBOE is not doing much to help growth. Closing schools, destroying communities, lowering property values, and reducing staff that comes with consolidation are not good for economic growth. Is anyone paying attention? We are in a recession, and the housing market is going bust. The growth at cpointe is all speculation. In such unstable economic times can the HCBOE honestly say who would attend or how many?
(3) For major improvements needed for the health and safety of the students and staff or for the permanent replacement of modular classrooms.
Having modular classrooms would give credence for closing Simpson and consolidating it at Cpointe. How concerned are they about health and safety? I’ve read on this blog that the site for cpointe would be at the end of the airport runway.
Does the board or this administration need more citizen input? Isn’t it clear from the election and the school effectiveness meetings and the voices on this blog and throughout the community that the citizens want to keep their schools in their communities? Yet here is a quote from Mr. Queen in a previous post- Hiring an engineering firm to evaluate the eight Harrison County schools we need to replace over the next 20 years and to place those eight schools on a priority list. The citizen input from The Greatest Needs Bond Committee boiled down to the chairperson making her recommendations. What will a $40,000 survey accomplish? What will the board do with that information if it doesn’t get the results they expect? Answer: what they darn well please. They hired an engineering firm to help with Mountaineer Middle and one of the recommendations was not to build it on the current site. Why spend money and hire consultants if they don’t listen.
Mr. Queen wants more people to attend school board meetings. I agree. I have a suggestion that would help inform citizens and possibly encourage attendance:
TAPE THE MEETINGS AND PUT THEM ON CHANNEL 18.
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that the more these School board people get by with the more emboldened they become when it comes to wasting our tax dollars??
To ‘wvurah’
Just reread my post today and realized that I wrote “You can tell ‘wvurah’ to do their homework,” while trying to make a point with Mike Queen to direct his responses to who posts on the blog, not to who he ‘guesses’ is posting on the blog. I wasn’t insinuating that YOU didn’t know what you were talking about, just wrapped up in my point at the time. Sorry.
Attention : All faithful collectivist surveyors forcing the elements and the system from without..
Ignore ” ^p^x>h/2 ” at your peril.
Resistance is futile.
One can not be omniscient and omnipresent and omnibenificent and omnipotent — atleast from the outside. Get over it.. Or atleast stop making such an infernal noise with the cinderblocks.
Boundaries and possibilities and consequences are more clearly seen from within an element looking out. The invisible hands inside all the gloves become decidedly more friendly and productive. And so this much is certain : The system improves. It cannot resist..
And the principle would even apply to Harrison County. So, let’s agree and shake on it. One invisible hand cooperating and competing with another.
Would somebody tell me why it is mandatory to have a 4 year old kindergarten in public schools. We have done without for years and I don’t believe it has hurt the children. Besides, when does a kid get to be a kid – are we going to start making them go to school a week after birth? This is nothing but child care – why is the public school system taking this on? There are plenty of child care facilities to handle the little ones.
From what I know, it is only mandatory that by 2012 pre-K be available to those who want it. I believe up to 50% of the pre-k population so half will still be in private pre-k and those businesses will not lose all their customers. I believe it is not mandatory to send your 4 year-old anywhere—- it just has to be offered and I think it is only 4 days a week.
I heard that they need a government building of some kind out at Charles Pointe to qualify for some funding and a school will fit the bill. I know about the TIF and the school, but this seemed to be something different. Anybody know more about this?
Bridgeport City Hall might be moving to Charles Pointe
J.J. do you know this, or are you just speculating?
Just speculating…. I wouldn’t even know how to think like our elected officials. I would just guess that this would be the next logical move since the Charles Pointe Development is a planned community and it will represent a downtown atmosphere, so logically city hall should be there.
J.J. Thank you. Your point made so much sense to me that I asked.
The whole concept wouldn’t surprise me one bit since we don’t have the opportunity to actually participate in any semblance of public discourse.
I know everyone wants to keep a community grade school, BUT is there any possibility of people with kids in Adamston and Wilsonburg being willing to consolidate those schools if we could get a NEW one? Maybe located half way in between? Then WE would qualify for SBA funding. Asking for input.
It is not like these 2 schools put together is going to make another Nutter Fort. I would like a new school and more than 1 teacher per grade sometimes. What do you think?
The duties and obligations of an individual board member may be enumerated as follows:
To familiarize himself/herself with the State School Laws, regulations of the State Department of Education, Harrison County School Board policies, rules, and regulations.
To have a general knowledge of educational philosophy, aims and objectives of the system.
To work harmoniously with other board members without trying either to dominate the board or neglect his/her share of the work.
To vote and act in the board meetings impartially for the good of the district.
To accept the will of the majority vote in all cases and give wholehearted support to the resulting policy.
To represent the board and the Harrison County School System to the public in such a way as to promote both interest and support.
To refer complaints to the proper school authorities and to abstain from individual counsel and action.
To abstain from voting or taking any action on any matter in which he/she could be reasonably accused of having a personal or vested interest.
Source: mqschoolboardupdates.org
Wow! This blog has been very busy today. Let me try to respond.
1. Yes I did think that “wvurah” was Diana Cole Marra. She was a cheerleader at WVU so I thought this blog-name was hers. Sorry. That’s the downside to not using a real name.
2. The reference to Diana’s dad, John Cole, was in no way meant to be derrogatory. He is a well respected retired school administrator here in Harrison County and he has forgotten more about our school system than I will ever know. Mr. Cole is also a well known and very competent roofer. He owns his own roofing company and the school board has used him on a number of occassions of the last several years to repair and replace commercial roofs on several Harrison County school. He would know how much commercial roof systems cost.
3. Many of the kids who will be bussed to the new elementary school in Bridgeport are already being bused to Simpson and Johnson. Langtown Road, Oral Lake (and beyond), Crystal Ridge, Maple Lake, Lake Ridge, etc.
4. I like the idea about taping the meetings and then showing them on Channel 18. I also want all of the key adminstrators to attend the meetings so that board members (and citizens who attend) can have their questions and concerns addressed right there and then.
5. Elect two new school board members who will vote with me to do televise our meetings AND to mandate that adminstrators attend….and we will do it!
6. (Be Informed) I don’t think that Mr. Reider uses the computer much. But I am sure that he would sincerely welcome you phone call to discuss his position as a candidate for the school board. His phone number is listed under Charles Reider in West Milford.
7. The law is the law and Harrison County has to offer Pre-K for four year olds. No there is not enough private day care centers to offer this service to 4 year olds in the Bridgeport area. That area of the county is growing!!!
8. The new Bridgeport elementary school qualifies for funding because there is demonstrated growth –
not anticipated growth in that area. The Bridgeport elementary school district goes North to Coons Run Road at Saltwell….East to the Taylor County Line….West to Meadowbrook and South to Anmoore.
The SBA application included funding that will build a new elementary school AND make improvements to both Johnson and Simpson by eliminating modular classrooms that are expensive to heat, cool and maintain and not safe. It is a priority for the SBA to eliminate modular classroooms. There are two at Simpson and four at Johnson.
9. Election for my position as well as for Mr. Reaser’s and Mrs. Cann’s will come up at the next election.
10. I’ve asked twice now for recommendations as to who you all support for the school board in the May 13th election….and why? Who should we elect? Who will have the courage to make changes?
Mike
Paul Howe and Dustin Vincent
What would it cost to add on to Johnson or Simpson (upward)?
I believe if Carl Friebel and the board would have stuck to their original 10-year plan of adding rooms on to Gore Middle School it would have been a lot cheaper than the road OR the water tank built at Mountaineer Middle.
MOUNTAINEER MIDDLE=
1. WASTE OF TAXPAYER DOLLARS!
2. INFERIOR FACILITY FOR STAFF, STUDENTS, AND “COMMUNITY”.
That’s hard for the school board to admit but it was all about closing schools-not providing a better education for students or preserving a sense of community. Talk around it all you want, but that is what Charles Pointe is going to do too.
Mike: Do you feel that you must answer every question
that surfaces on this blog? Read the former coments I afforded you. It is less than appropriate for a member of the BOE to poll the community as to their
personal preferences in the May election, and you
must know that you should not discuss your preferences, or biases in a public forum. Send them some of your money. You have been elected to
represent the entire community.
I’m not defending everything Mr. Queen writes or says…but I appreciate the fact that he say’s SOMETHING. Again I DO NOT agree with all of his points (CP is a mistake and MM was mishandled) but I give credit were creedit is due. He has educated himself on school board policy and requirements and has done more than all of the current Board combined to put the issues in the public. I am much more aware of school board issue since his election than before (I think most people would agree with that statement) and I would bet he has given more personal time to working on school board issues than the rest of the board.
So lets cut him a little slack… We want our Board Members to listen to the people…then we critisize them for asking…it seams like a no win situation…if we want change we the voters need to do some changing too.
Just one persons opinion.
Dear Half Liter,
I want you to know my position and I want to know what you think as well.
I do have to work during the day and I am at some kind of activity for 13 year olds several evenings a week. When I am at work with my son I would rather not discuss school board stuff – unless it is real important.
I have NEVER missed a regular or special meeting of the school board since I was elected….but most people don’t want to come to school board meetings.
So you see, I have very little time or opportunities to guage public support for or against lots of issues the school board is dealing with right now. I wish I had ONE-TENTH of the public input I’ve gotten on a new school in Bridgeport dedicated to what we should be doing with the county’s curriculum!
Anyway, I am not prohibited from asking you to support or be against candidate(s) for the school board. If you like what I am trying to do, then please consider my endorsement. If not, vote for someone else.
I told everyone why I was voting for Mr. Reider — a person I’ve only known since I got elected 19 months ago. I even revealed what issues I discussed with Mr. Reider.
If I offended you or anyone else asking who you were voting for, then I do apologize. I should not have done that. It’s not illegal to ask. It’s not unethical. But it is against your privacy.
I am just so eager to get two new people elected to the school board to vote with me for change in our system. I don’t know most the other candidates very well or at all. I’m tired of the votes going 4 to 1 against me. Sometimes I can’t even get another member to second my motion so we can even discuss a motion or idea.
If the readers here are frustrated that you can’t get anything done in our school system — try to imagine being a school board member who can’t get anything done!
Mike
Dustin Vincent
Paul Howe
Mr. Queen that should tell you something. Same old same old. Even though I have said it before, I’ll state it again, it APPEARS you would rather argue with someone and tell them that your opionion is correct rather than just to be reasonable. For those who call Mr. Queen a flip/flopper, I am going to give him half credit for what appeasrs to trying to compromise. But Mr. Queen it’s hard to say you are trying to compromise when you just take a stand and woon’t move from it with NO logical explanation.
I for one would not vote for someone to be elected to the School Board just so you could get another vote. If you have been listening (or reading as the case my be here) over 90% of the BLOGGERS disagree with your stance on the CP school (no matter if is located in CP or not) and they don’t see anything wrong with a two story school. That’s not a real positive way to win votes, but as I digress, Mr. Queen when you start showing some flexibility and reason, then maybe you can win over some voters, but till I for one would not give you another vote on the School Board.
Not trying to be rude, but maybe you should go back and reread some of the comments.
Folks if I am misreading the prior comments, please let me know.
I’m with Beavis and Butthead,
DV and PH
MR QUEEN – #8 -Tie the permanent removal of six classrooms (classroom space for what 150+/- students) to your SBA application and you have created your own instant justification for an otherwise unnecessary (2008) CP school. Nice move! Creative! I’ll let our readers comment if this meets the test of YOUR “enumerated duties and obligations of a board member.”
#6 -Not a lot Mr. Reider can say after you have set his campaign pledge.
As to your #10, I would think by now you would understand it is better to “listen” rather than to always speak. Perhaps then you would get your “second”. I think you should wait, as we all must, for the candidiates to tell us their qualifications for a Board position and their thoughts on various issues facing the HCBE. Perhaps some have already posted to this blog.
I do compliment you for the idea of broadcasting the HCBE meetings. There is sufficient equipment available to the HCBE for such a program. It would be helpful for those of us that are not able to get out.
Curriculum – “In God We Trust”….for a starter. Then give the schools back to teachers . You don” t see teachers telling parents how to run their homes! Well then…..
God Bless . For we all sit in a circle and suppose while Truth sits in the center and knows.
BE INFORMED – You hit this one on the head.
#8 above responding to Mr. Queen. The PERMANENT removal of modulars would result in the +/- 150 students. What if those modulars were replaced with PERMANENT classrooms? 0 students for Charles Pointe. The justification for the CP school is a joke! Improve / renovate / build on to Johnson and Simpson. Tear down that 1909 building at Simpson, replace with new classrooms and get over it.
I know Dustin Vincent and Paul Howe both very well, and can’t think of two better candidates for HCBOE.
I’ve known Dustin a while longer, and can say that he will objectively look at any issue and help solve any problem. Heck, he’s an engineer and solves complex issues for a living. Plus, he’s in this for his two kids as well. Obviously, I’m backing him, his website is DustinVincent.com
Paul Howe I know is a genuine person who is in this to make the system a better one. He too has kids in the system, and would make a great board member.
My other vote easily goes to Paul.
If Paul has a website, will someone post it? I don’t know if he does or not.
this is my first post on the blog, so apologize if I’m out of line with anything
‘For we all sit in a circle and suppose while Truth sits in the center and knows.’ Thank you BE INFORMED for
these words of wisdom. These pearls are such that
they could evoke some soul searching amongst the
electorate. Then they will clearly discern why votes go
4 to 1 againgt them, why they don’t yield a second, and
why reelection will be improbable.
Eh men.
Let’s switch from diencephalic cinder block mode to neocortical soul searching mode (or some such attempt at discerning primary philosophical principles).
Waiter, hold that order of cinderblocks. Bill, please.
Eh men: You sound like that wierd psychiatrist who
embraces wicca. Place your “block nonsense” in the
wicca daily and give us a break—-perhaps you could
just mail them to the lone ranger at the hcboe who
can’t garner a second.
‘cuse me, but what did the last three blogs say?
Query:
Of the candidates currently running for the Bo Ed, who are
non-consolidation, pro neighborhood school candidates?
Many thanks,
S
Sophie,
I can speak for myself, that I am pro neighborhood schools. I prefer not to see consolidations, and will consider viable options for deconsolidating elementary schools.
Dustin Vincent
MR. VINCENT – glad to see your post. Thought for a while there we lost this “blog” to the City of Clarksburg. Only kidding…room for all. And “thank you” for posting under subject.
MIKE QUEEN – What is next for the School Board? A Bond has been delayed. Now what? Is the Board going to set up meetings again around the county?
Thank you for responding Mr. Vincent. I look forward to
learning more about your campaign positions.
S.
Sophie,
I value community schools for the educational opportunity they can provide to all children. I think many of us in Harrison County have seen bonds that have promised new building of schools with good intentions and questionable results. Much of the consolidation that we have seen has come from the state’s “economy of scales” SBA funding program. To meet the funding requirements of the SBA, board members must be willing to consolidate and settle for a lesser school. Square footage wise and types of class rooms. I do believe there is a better path to follow.
I am for community schools. I questioned the school board’s motive for a consolidated Mountaineer Middle, before the property was purchased above Liberty High School. I felt that if the children of Salem needed a new elementary school, then we should have built one for them. Instead, our board saw an opportunity to close an elementary school and move them into the existing middle school. Our board’s current mentality of “economy of scales” is code word for consolidation. It’s not about education. The Salem community needs their elementary school and should have kept their middle school. Many of the teachers at Gore Middle did not want to be consolidated either, as they also felt they had a community school to lose.
I am for community schools in our neighborhoods. One, it just make sense to me that the people paying for the schools, the tax payers, should also have the economic advantage of the schools being built back in (or kept in) the communities. Two, from an educational stand point; I do not see how we can go wrong with community schools. Small elementary schools in our neighborhoods lend themselves to greater community involvement and volunteerism. Smaller class room sizes allow more one on one time with teachers. This is so critical with our Pre K through 3rd graders to give them a solid foundation for learning. Parents and neighbors using the schools as community centers (like they once were) is an enormous advantage to schools maintained in our communities.
People in Harrison County can name countless schools that have been built in the last 30 years that have had a hidden price tag included. This price tag I’m talking about is infrastructure. We know many examples of the school board taking a school out of a surrounding community or neighborhood where the population base is established, and placing it on a site out side of the population base. Sometimes out side of the city it was consolidated from. This “economy of scales” line of thinking actually causes increased expense to the cities and the school board to bring water, sewage, and even roads to these sites. Our BOE has made these decisions with out regard to infrastructure costs or maintenance issues that these small towns now have increased expenditures for. As a school board member I will do everything possible to not allow these things to continue.
Mr. Howe: What are your thoughts regarding the HCBE’s current application for the school at Charles Pointe?
Ok, I read lots of posts on this blog about this school situation with Charles Pointe. And I agree with the post over on the other article. What can we do to stop this school at Charles Pointe and tell our city council in Bridgeport and the School Board we want to totally renovate our current schools and build extra rooms onto them to help the crowding in our schools. What is the plan?
I’ve gotta say Paul Howe has the right idea about shcools staying in our neighborhoods. And I wish there was a better solution to the bond. But Mr. Howe hit it I think when he stated the fact of the HCBE miss handling the last bond! What about the town of salem or the teachers at gore! They droped the ball on that one. If you would ask me I would have to say we need to make it right. I think Mr. Howe can make a difference on the board with honesty, integrity and a true concern for kids and community
Bridgeport and Harrison County citizens this is our time to get this one right! We must band together to tell the SBA that our entire county does not want them to fund the school at Charles Pointe. Let’s draw a line in the sand. The School Board needs to start listening to the voters that put them on the Board. They should have never turned in an application for the Charles Pointe school and gone against the wishes of the voters. Start by calling Dr. Mark Manchin at the SBA or email / fax / write him to tell him we do not want this school.
E-mail Address: mmanchin@wvsba.state.wv.us
Telephone: (304) 558-2541 Fax: (304) 558-2539
State of West Virginia School Building Authority
2300 Kanawha Boulevard, East
Charleston, WV 25311-2306
Thank you for helping. We can restore our school system. We can do what is right for our communities and our children. STEP 1 — Get rid of this ’sweet deal’ for a developer. The SBA needs to hear from every part of our county! NO CHARLES POINTE SCHOOL WHERE NO CHILDREN LIVE!
Let me start by saying I agree 100% with leaving schools in the local communities as much as possible, especially elementry schools.
But, Mr. Howe and the rest of us must consider the cost of running multiple buildings…staffing, utilities, maintenance, etc. And are we willing to pay the additional cost associated with these buildings. This is the reason behind the State BOE’s incouragement of consolitation throught grants.
If someone brings up consolidation they are dismissed as being anti-education, unamerican, etc.
But, the truth is sometimes conslidation is needed in order to fit within the financial limits. It would be great to have a school in every community but nobody wants to pay for it.
Not too many years ago we had the little one room schools in every community…compare that to one or to huge H.S. Schools in the county now…neither are the best solution. There is a happy medium and sometime consolidation is necessary.
I do not think any potential Board Member should dismiss consolidation without looking at the individual situations.
Anonymous – What you say is correct about the cost limitations. This, I am sure, was a large part of the reason for Mountaineer Middle, but this does not really apply to the Charles Pointe/Route 131 school. This school is not for consolidation, it is for EXPECTED growth. When you have two schools that are rated as some of the highest in the area, if not in the state, and the HCBOE wants to use the excuse that they are over crowded to be the reason for a new one that’s just not reasonable.
Yes consolidation in some cases is necessary, but let’s look at what is currently working and workng quite well. You have Simpson and BM that have modulars for the extra numbers. Not once has anyone on the HCBOE given a reason, let alone a good reason, as to why these modulars cannot be removed and a permanent structure be built in these spaces. There maybe some acquisition costs for some property around each, but in the long run, it would be less expensive and kept the schools as community schools.
If you count the numbers of High Schools in Harrison County there are 5. In surrounding Counties there is only one or two at most, with the exception of Marion. One has to look at why is there a need for 5 in our county and is it really cost effective. I believe it works well now, but what does the future hold and what is the 5, 10, 15 year out look for Harrison County WV? I don’t know the answer, but I cannot believe that the growth warrants another school.
What about Lumberport. It is now effident to everyone that this school should have been considered before MM, but it was easier to build MM becasue of the matching funds. Then the HCBOE tried to backdoor their way into a funding for the new CP/RT. 131 school by requesting SBA money, thus bypassing the voters. How can you trust a group like that? It’s just that the HCBOE needs to start listening to the citizens of the county and try to workout the best for everyone.
No one at the HCBOE has given the public any information as to why they are trying to shove their agenda down the citizens of Bridgeports throats, except because they thinks it is waht is best, BUT WHY?
This is why citizens need to become involved in School Board meetings or you cannot expect anything to change.
I think that real injustice has been to the people of Lumberport. They do not have the ‘political’ strength to lobby after getting new schools in that area, and have been ignored for too long.
In my opinion, the top two priorities for replacement schools are both sitting in Lumberport. I believe that a replacement for Lumberport Middle should have been ahead of a Mountaineer Middle and above a Charles Pointe school. The same goes for Lumberport Elementary.
If there was a replacement plan in place, maybe they would have been thrown in the mix.
Fact is, there is no document currently drafted that I know of that goes beyond the required 10 year CEFP.
If elected to the board, I want to begin the process to have a long-term (40-50 yr) facilities plan developed that addresses these types of issues, and can be re-visited yearly to prioritize the condition of our facilities and to provide guidance for future capital improvement decisions.
As to the comment above from Anonymous,
You are right, to have community schools comes with a price tag. If a new era of HCBOE commits to community schools, then the people of Harrison County will have to commit as well.
Commit by passing the bonds and passing the levies. It can not be both ways.
But, with that said, I really think that the people of Harrison County are ready to invest in their communities, and are ready to invest in their county, as long as they believe in that investment and have faith in their school board that the money is being used properly, fairly, and without waste.
To answer a question from above, posed to me. The HCBOE application to the SBA may not even be valid. I do not believe it meets the requirements of the written 10 yr Comprehensive Educational Facilities Plan. The 10 yr Comprehensive Educational Facilities Plan, also known as the CEFP, must be developed and adopted by the HCBOE. These goals and objectives must consider all aspects of the educational and facilities needs across the county. The CEFP may also be amended, with public input and then approved by the state WVBOE and SBA. The board must submit the CEFP for approval for any changes. After the 10 year CEFP was presented to the public in 2000, one of the first board actions taken in Harrison County was to declare that Simpson and Johnson in Bridgeport would not be closed, and the board tagged both as “Keeper Schools”. These two schools were identified in the CEFP to be closed and consolidated. Fast forward to late 2006; remember the Mega Elementary School proposal? Here the HCBOE goes against what they stood on in 2000. Charles Pointe School was never mentioned in the CEFP announced in 2000 and through the freedom of information act I have found it has never been amended to include a Charles Pointe school since then. Check out WV code126-172-1, Hand Book on Planning School Facilities. This out lines the rules and procedures for our CEFP.
My second thought; why is the HCBOE not applying for funding for a Lumberport Middle School? Back in December of 2006 and January of 2007 the board acknowledged that a new school was needed for the greater Shinnston Lumberport area. Fast forward 6 months, July 07 bond fails. September 2007 (8 months later) the HCOBE holds a special meeting and submits an application to the SBA for a school, but it’s not for a new middle for the Lincoln feeder area. These funds should have been requested for that school based on health and safety needs. It was already outlined in our CEFP to build it.
At the Sept. 28th meeting the President of the board stated he would not allow public comment at this special board meeting held at Mountaineer Middle School. This is unusual since the board has always allowed public comments before special and regular board meetings. Most that attended were discussed and felt disenfranchised as members of the public were not able to have their comments herd and put on record. In fact, go to the HCBOE web site http://www.harcoboe.com/About/Board/ApprovedMinutes07_08.cfm and click on the minutes of that meeting; No where is it recorded that members of the public wanted to address the board before the vote for an SBA school to be built at Charles Pointe. The minutes do not reflect Mr. Queens’s reasons for voting no on the SBA application for a Charles Pointe School. Mike, I don’t want to steal your thunder so please elaborate for our readers.
It comes down to Mountaineer Middle was not needed, but our board wanted it and the SBA gave the HCBOE $8 million and the board came up with $3 million in matching funds with no local vote needed.
Our board wants Charles Pointe and asking for $6 million in state funds and they will come up with $3 million in local matching funds with no vote needed.
I believe the limited SBA funds should be directed to improve and maintain the “Keeper Schools”, yet those that advocate for a new Charles Pointe Elementary School want to declare “overcrowded schools” in Bridgeport. The student capacity numbers in the Comprehensive Educational Facilities Plan do not support this since the two Bridgeport elementary schools only exceed their combined capacity by approximately 40 students. That would require maybe two or three classrooms, not an entire school building.
Dear “Stevens”,
The school board has postponed a school bond until the November General Election.
Right now, the school board is working on the 2008-09 budget and the staffing needs for next year.
With two new school board members coming on board, I think we should wait to finalize a plan until they have some say in what they would like to see in the school bond.
In the meantime, I would like to see the school board ask each of the local engineering firms to assist us in identifying a replacement priority for the EIGHT schools that need to be replaced. How can these firms do that? By allowing one of their registered professional engineers to serve on a committee one afternoon a week for the next 4-6 weeks.
That would give these engineers an opportunity to (1) conduct a site visit of each school, (2) analyze the data we already have on each of the eight schools and (3) determine what additional information may be needed to determine a priority list (which school should be built first, then second, etc).
Frankly, I don’t see a lot interest from the other school board members in working on a school bond plan right now. With all of the misinformation out there about schools, the SBA, modulars, etc……it is all so misleading.
A lot of the misinformation about school bonds is being planted by those who WILL NEVER support a school bond – period! They love this banter back and forth. They are pitting Mountaineer Middle families against Lumberport Middle families. They are dividing the Bridgeport community into poltical divisions.
Anonymous bloggers to this site and school board candidates, who have attended few if any school board meetings, seem to have all of the answers….and they make statements as if they are facts.
Spend time on a 40-year school replacement plan? Keeper schools? Come on, folks. Our schools need improvements now!
While I am impressed that Dustin Vincent and Paul Howe at least take time to respond to questions on this blog — they don’t have any idea what all needs to be considered to develop a long-term plan for 25 school buildings in Harrison County.
AND I DIDN’T EITHER! Being elected to the school board was a real eye opener for me.
There are folks out there that are 100% against Charles Pointe because they wanted the school built on property owned by their friends – with a $3 million price tag on it!
There are folks on this blog that have a hidden agenda and want to close Liberty because they support RCB. They secretly can’t stand that a new Mountaineer Middle was built and not a new WIMS.
There are bloggers here who love that Lumberport and Shinnston are fighting about where the new Lumberport Middle School will be built — because they don’t want any bond to pass. They hate to pay taxes.
One blogger asks “why don’t they just replace the modulars with new structures added on to the schools”?
Well blogger , have you ever been to Johnson Elementary? It would take AT LEAST six months to demolish those modulars and to build the new classrooms with brick and mortar.
QUESTION! Where would you like for us to put the children when all of this construction is occuring? We have three months off in the summer….what about the other three months?
AND…..Johnson needs two additional classrooms for the Pre-K need there. 4 modulars + 2 new Pre-K classrooms = 6 new classrooms. The SBA says that a new standardized classroom meeting the state school board requirements costs about $200,000 each.
6 x $200,000 = $1.2 million……and that puts Johnson at about 685 students….with no additonal room for any more students. I thought Harrison County wanted to stay away from elementary schools over 600 students.
And what about the growth in the Bridgeport area? Will there be any? In Paul Howe’s 10 year plan or in Dustin Vincent’s 40 year plan — do you think there will be any new students in that area of the county?
Oh yes, and then there are those bloggers who ABSOLUTELY KNOW what the School Building Authority will and will not fund. They are not members of the SBA board, but like the Great and Powerful Oz, they know everything!
I bet if I invited every reader to this blog to attend a roundtable discussion about what the SBA will and WILL NOT fund, that there would be fewer than five who really care enough to show up. We can invite the media and the staff of the SBA to attend. Until then though, anonymous bloggers and school board candidates can write anything they want here as if it’s fact.
In the meantime, we continue to sit and spin our wheels – going nowhere and getting deeper and deeper in the mud. The yellow brick road is full of mud pits.
Iv’e said this before. A school bond has to be voted on by the people. So because of that we, as a school board, are forced to find a “political solution to practical problems”. There is NO WAY to make everyone happy AND to keep a school bond to a reasonable amount. We tried that in July and got beat — and beat bad!
You all remember that July bond, right? It included a new WIMS….and a new LMS…..and a new Bridgeport elementary school…..and major improvements to every school in this county……AND $20 MILLION IN FREE SBA MONEY THAT WE DID NOT HAVE TO PAY BACK!
Every area of the county was getting something…..and it still got defeated!
Those who don’t want to pay any additional taxes REGARDLESS of what a school bond builds are hard at work throughout the county and right here on this blog. They keep it stirred up. No bond will ever make them happy. The will be against anything recommended.
My guess is that this county will have a difficult time ever passing another school bond. But that shouldn’t stop us from trying to find solutions to improve our schools.
We all have to compromise. We are a county school board NOT a city school board. We have children in 25 schools depending on us to provide a safe and clean environment to learn.
That’s our goal.
Mike
Mike,
I welcome your opportunity to set up a meeting with the SBA in our area. We want to hear directly from them on what the criteria is and how they select which projects get funded and which do not. I think that would be a worthwhile meeting and guarantee more people would show up than what you are suggesting.
When and where can we hold the meeting?
Hey Mike,
Talking to people around the county it’s not about the small increase in our property tax to float a bond. It’s about spending the money where the people want to see it spent. That’s why we get elected, to do the peoples work. And if the people are sophisticated enough to understand the value of community schools (for education and property values) and are willing to pay the extra $50 to $80 a year to keep and improve on what we have in this county, then by all means I am with them.
I was at the mens Salem College basketball game last night and ran into a couple of Harrison County teachers. One of the teachers works at Lumberport Middle. This person told me, Lumberport Middle has lost teachers through attrition and to make matters worse they are getting children from the Gore area who’s parents do not want them to attend the over crowded Mountaineer Middle. What are your thoughts?
Mike I have been to many of the HCBOE meetings. I attended many of the SBA meetings you guys had and the meetings you had with Blackwood. I have gone to feeder school meeting at Lincoln, Byrd, Bridgeport, and South Harrison. I have attended a couple of your Greatest Need committee meetings. I was at the meeting held in Clarksburg Council Chambers, where the school board asked the city what they would like to see in that bond. I have participated Mike. So from my notes, and the notes from many others who have attended these meeting, I can surmise the people are suggesting a slightly different approach to our CEFP.
Mike, take the opportunity and explain why you voted no to the SBA application. I agree with you on this one. You stated very valid points, and ones I know the teachers would appreciate hearing from a HCBOE board member
Paul J.
Mr. Queen are you suggesting that the state has so much control over our Elected county school board, that many of the ideas that people are bringing to the table can not even be considered? If that is the case, then maybe Mr. Howe is running for the wrong office. I say this because when he talked to me, he stated ways to make significant changes in how we operate as a school system. I do not believe he meant changing the color scheme of the locker rooms or changing the light bulbs. I like the enthusiasm and ideas he has.
I don’t believe I have ever met Mr. Vincent. I have heard that he is an engineer and has two children in the school system? No one else in this school board race has children in currently in the schools, except for these two. That in and of it’s self does not qualify you for school board. Actually most of these elections are a popularity contest of name recognition. However, we should consider the agenda of the people who are running. Why are so many past school board employees running for the office? And will they represent the tax payers and parents equally with the teachers and service personnel? Mr. Queen you have been an agent for change, why not embrace these young men and welcome their ideas. Real change will take two new fresh faces.
Mike Queen,
The 40-year plan I speak of will not solve the problems of today, it will help avoid these same problems of the future. I will still be around here 40 years from now, and would like to see this county in a much better position than it is.
I wish that 20+ years ago, when the board was putting together that last bond that included Bridgeport Middle, RCB, and Nutter Fort, that they would have started THEN to analyze and develop a plan of action to move forward with the remaining schools in this county. Had that happened, I don’t think we’d be talking about a failed bond from last July.
That fact that it wasn’t done in the past doesn’t excuse ignoring the future.
As for the problems of today, we are currently contacting members of the communities from all around the county to unite those that supported the last bond and those that opposed the last bond. We are bringing these people to the table for discussions. We will bring these people to the board meetings to ask for the board to move forward immediately with the next bond proposal.
Instead of adding fuel to the fire, and giving the voters more reasons to oppose a bond, why not try to be part of the solutions to unite this county and get the work done that needs to be done?
As for current board members who may not be interested in preparing the next bond, there is NO excuse for that. The job is to continue to find ways to improve our curriculum and facilities, and at no time shall anybody throw their hands up and not try. But at the last board meeting, I did not get this impression from any of the board members. Mrs. Cann did make the statement that they need to be 100% behind this and that they have not been in the past. I was glad to hear that she recognized the situation and is ready to support the November bond.
Mr. Queen, you stated that the July bond was defeated soundly, I agree. Can you tell us why you think it was defeated?
I think it had much less to do with taxes, and more to do with a statement from the voters.
Dear Quiet Observer,
I will move forward with setting the meeting up with a couple of folks from the School Building Authority. I sincerely hope that you will attend and will encourage others to attend as well.
Dear Paul,
I find it hard to believe that ANY PARENT would want their child to attend Lumberport Middle School rather than a brand new state-of-the-art Mountaineer Middle School — but I will have to take your word for it. Would you mind giving me those parents names so that I could talk with them myself? Email me personally so that I can follow up with them.
Regarding my vote against the application for the new elementary school in Bridgeport…….
My vote NO did not mean that I do not support the application to the SBA for $6 million of free grant money. Because I do support the construction of a new school there.
As you know, Paul, beginning with Mountaineer, the school board has been setting aside about $1 million a year going towards new school construction. The school board is continuing that commitment for this year and two more years ($3 million total) in order to get the grant money for the new elementary school.
Now $3 milion from the school board and $6 million from the SBA = $9 million total.
The new school will cost about $7.3 million.
The remaining funds will go towards eliminating the modular units at Simpson and Johnson. Here is how that should work:
1. Build the new elementary school.
2. Open the new elementary school in the fall of 2010. Shift students from Saltwell Road, Belasco’s Trailer Park, Langtown Road, Crystal Ridge, Oral Lake and East to the county Line and Maple Lake North to the County line (basically everything East of Oliverio’s Restaurant) who already ride the bus to Johnson and Simpson to the new elementary school located just .6 mile from Skateworld.
3. Completing No. 2 will reduce the student populations at Johnson and Simpson. It will allow Johnson and Simpson to have two new Pre-K classes in rooms currently occupied by 1st and 2nd grades.
The new school will also have two Pre-K classes.
4. With 250-300 students East of Oliverio’s Restaurant now in the new elementary school, we will be able to eliminate the modular classrooms (4 at Johnson and 2 at Simpson) without any disruption to the operation of either school.
Now, Paul, by the Fall of 2010 a new elementary school could be in place in Bridgeport. With the funds committed to the SBA grant, we will demolish the two modulars at Simpson AND be able to demolish the house we bought on Center Street.
In the fall of 2010, Simpson will still be the oldest school in the county but it will be improved. The modulars will be gone and Pre-K students in the Simpson community can go to Pre-K in that school.
PLEASE UNDERSTAND that I support the construction of a new Simpson. In time, I think the school board can buy more property along Center Street and Philadelphia Avenue to do just that.
BUT…..now and in the fall of 2010 Simpson will not be the worst school in our system in need of replacement. You’ve critisized the school board for building a new Mountaineer before a new Lumberport Middle — because Lumberport is in worse shapre.
I am sure that you will be screaming and yelling “FOUL” if the school board would build a new Simpson before other schools in the county that may be in greater need of replacement…..Right?
That’s why I have been advocating for some independent and professional engineering advice on prioritizing which school gets build first.
NOW….back to your question as to why I voted against the SBA application for a new elementary school in Bridgeport. You attended that meeting and you know that prior to the vote on the SBA application that I tried to get a supplemental salary increase for 1,400 school board employees.
We had the money. In fact, the legislature gave us additional money that began this past year. The school board had not bdugeted that money to go anywhere.
I wanted an across the board raise of $800 to go to each of our 1,400 employees. As a businessman who understands the impact that payrolls (under $60,000 a year) have on local economies I know that the raise I was proposing would go right back into Harrison County businesses.
That $800 would most likely go to additional retail purchases, auto sales, home improvements…or maybe even a long weekend family vacation.
When I couldn’t even get one of the other board members to second my motion, knowing that the funds were not budget or encumbered, I was very upset. I voted against the SBA grant application in protest.
Dear Dustin,
Planning does not guarantee that you won’t make mistakes.
20 years ago when Harrison County voters approved the last bond, we (the voters AND the school board) made a mistake. The bond allowed us to consolidate several community elementary schools into Nutter Fort. That mega-elementary school is way too big.
Planning is important but it should not be so concrete that it can’t be changed. The school board is required to update its CEFP every couple of years. A new 10-year plan is due next year.
I believe that the PRIMARY reason the school bond failed in July was A LACK OF CONFIDENCE IN THE SCHOOL BOARD AND THE ADMINISTRATION. I’ve said that before and I believe it to be true.
But I also believe that our school employees wanted to send a message to the school board that they are not happy. Lots of people didn’t like the fact that I was able to get turf for the other four high schools included in the bond. The Clarksburg city council wanted the new WIMS build at Hite Field and not at RCB. RCB baseball boosters wanted a new baseball field in that area….not a new WIMS. Lumberport wanted the new middle school build in Lumberport and NOT near Lincoln….which is in Shinnston. North View, Wilsonburg and Norwoord residents wanted new schools.
Lots of folks in Bridgeport thought the new elementary school was being built at the Jerry Dove exit somewhere near Buffalo Wild Wings. A couple of families in Bridgeport who wanted the school board to buy property off of them rather than to take the FREE property forgot to tell folks that the proposed new school in Bridgeport is actually closer to Simpson than it is to Buffalo Wild Wings.
So the school bond failed for a number of reasons…..did I mention the lack of confidence the voters have in the school board?
What the school board needs is two new members not afraid to shake things up! Diplomacy and reasoning won’t work. I’ve tried it time after time.
How would you and Paul Howe “shake things up”. Do you support the immediate seach for a new superintendent? Will you support a reduction in the higher level staff in the Central Office and dedicate the savings to our school building and maintenance budgets?
You and Paul say that you are familiar with the county school system. You are both candidates who say that the school board needs a new direction.
OK then. Which positions in the Central Office would you vote to eliminate at your very first meeting?
I can’t wait to read your answers to this question. Please do so on this blog so that the others can read your suggestions.
Mike
Mike Queen,
I am glad that you responded and explained things the way that you just did in the above post.
I can now see that our opinions are a bit closer on many subjects, I was beginning to think otherwise. We have the same ‘PRIMARY’ and secondary reasons for why we feel the July bond failed.
Independent engineering advice, well my advice is no longer independent so I won’t be on the committee. I’m sure our firm would still allow someone else to participate on such a committee, and I feel that a few other local firms would allow an employee to do so if that employee wanted to participate. I don’t think the engineers committee should have a final say, but feel their input should be weighed heavily along with the maintenance staff’s input.
As far as “shaking things up”, I don’t think it would be wise for any candidate to state that once elected, the first meeting they will immediately call for a certain position to be eliminated. To do so would appear if it were solely because of “an axe to grind” or some other motive. The Central Office needs to have the duties of each position fully detailed in its job description and only at that point should the entire board along with the Superintendent, begin the review process of those positions.
I am for making the necessary changes, but was under the impression that there was a specific method to the Superintendent evaluation process, and that two new members cannot be sworn in, and immediately ask to begin finding a new superintendent. Is this not true? If so, that would also be foolish of a candidate to say they will do one thing, when in fact, they cannot. I have been researching the WV School Boards Association, and the WV D of E trying to learn more on the subject.
Basically, once on the Board, I want the information in front of me, I want to be able to ask the questions that need asked, then I want to formulate my own opinion on what positions may need eliminated, to do so now would only be based on someone else’s point of view, and I don’t work that way.
Dustin
Dustin Vincent: Thank you fpr your comments and
intentions you have if you are indeed elected to the
HCBOE. You have demonstrated your firm desire to
be professional in all of your writings.You yearn for
information to to expand your knowledge of the system. You have respect for superiors and your peers. You have no intention to “shake things up”
anywhere in the HCBOE–that is a game for fools.
You have my respect and my vote.
Dear Dustin,
Spoken like a true “Central Office” insider. I wondered who the Administration’s candidate was out of the 13 running for the school board. Seems like I found him.
Dr. Friebel and his high paid “staff council” only need one vote on the school board to keep the status quo in the Central Office. Mr. Reaser and Mrs. Cann clearly support the organization we currently have — I have given them several opportunities over the last 20 months to make changes.
You and the bloggers here are quick to throw me under the bus for “not listening to the voters”. Why haven’t you listened to the bloggers here when they talk about the administration?
You yourself have suggested right here in this blog that there is a lack of confidence in the school board and our Central Office. What kind of “information” do you need? Why don’t you already have it? Your running for the school board and you don’t know about the excessive salaries we pay some of the Central Office higher-ups? You haven’t already seen the job descriptions for all of the “special assistants” all making almost $90,000 a year or more — twice as much as a classroom teacher with 25 years experience and a Masters Degree?
You seem to have a lot of information on how to evaluate and keep the Superintendent!
Yes, Dustin, there is an evaluation process for the superintendent. No, you can’t FIRE the superintendent at your first meeting.
Go back and read my post….please!
I am suggesting that we start a ‘SEARCH’ for a new superintendent. It may be that no one wants to be superintendent of schools in Harrison County. It may be that Dr. Friebel is the best we can find right now.
But in case he is not, a search will allow the school board to “research” our options. A search will take six months….at least! Then it will take another 4-6 months to get someone hired.
Nothing in public education works fast Dustin!
If we do a seach now, we can develop a list of qualified replacements for Dr. Friebel in the event he decides to retire or goes to work for someone else. We can “plan” for his departure.
If he leaves or retires and we haven’t conducted a search for a replacement, then Mrs. Collins may have to be appointed the “interim superintendent”. And if that happens, the status quo remains!
Of course, Mrs. Collins has already told you that, right?
Sure she has. She is your friend and I would expect you to be supportive of her.
Good luck with your campaign. It seems as if you already have Dr. Friebel, Mrs. Collins and Lilly T working for you.
Mike
Mike Queen,
Let me give you a little advice.
I admired your resolve and down right guts when it came to not following the crowd on the BOE, and I’m not outright condemming the previous Board members. I think they become unattached to the public and in some ways very arrogant in their approach with the public. (example not allowing public comment during a public meeting at MM). This is outrageous and should be addressed (but that is another point) The Board overtime has developed the attitude that they know best and we should not interfer with thier work. The point is they and you are elected to represent the voter/residents of Harrison County and THIER children. Yes you have your own mind and should follow what you beleive to be the best for the entire school system. From my point of view you do a good job of that.
But, what I’m beginning to see is your frustration when dealing with the opposition. You are starting to cross that proverbial line with some of your comments.
Board Members should all remember that they are subject to public scrutiny and yes sometimes from people that may not know the subject as well as you. But, you still have to answer the question, work to convience them, show them the facts and do it with the respect one would give thier boss.
I know it is not easy at times, but remember you ask for the position.
By the way why was the public not allowed to comment at a public meeting.
DUSTIN — The very worst you can do at this time is get into a “posting” war with Mr. Queen. He is baiting you . It will be time ill spent. There is no surprise in the most recent post from Mr. Queen. He is full of suggestions most with little substance and far less result.
Dustin,
It seems like Mike has challenged you to answer whether you are supported by any of the people he listed above including Dr. Friebal and Susan Collins. For the record, are you friends with either one of those people or anyone else in the central office. Being friends doesn’t disqualify you, but in the interest of full disclosure some would like to hear the answer to that question.
“I wanted an across the board raise of $800 to go to each of our 1,400 employees”
I read the Minutes of the Special Meeting. There is no mention of your presentation.
The HCBE had(has?) $1,120,000 (minimum) of unrestricted, unbudgeted funds from the State of WV? The legislature just “gave” the HCBE the money? Where is it today? NOW?
Dustin and Paul,
Would you have seconded Queen’s motion for $800 for an increase in the employee supplements to come from the unencumbered and unbudgeted money?
Although your attempt to “bait me” was a very good one…. Mike, the FACT IS, before last Tuesday, I have never had a single conversation with Ms. Collins. Ever.
I thought you would have known that if you really have been doing your homework.
It appears you are very much mistaken on who the Central Office “insider” is, and I’m amazed that you would make such a public accusation when you couldn’t be more wrong.
However Mike, you and I HAVE had phone conversations, so would they assume that we are great friends with ‘plans’ made already? You know that isn’t the case either. If you truely believe what you posted above and want to discuss it further, feel free to call me at any time.
I’ll take the advise of NO SURPRISE and I won’t respond any further to your post since its 100% off base and has no merit.
Quiet Observer, for the record, you’d have to ask Dr. Friebel and Mrs. Collins if they support me, I can’t speak for them, in fact I’ve never had a conversation with either of them in regards to my running for the Board.
The first time I’ve ever spoken with Mrs. Collins was at the last board meeting, and it was in passing. She seems like a nice enough person, but that was our first meeting, not the ‘friends’ that Mr. Queen stated above.
Lilly T, don’t get me wrong, I want to see MANY changes at the central office and reductions in the amount of $$ spent in many areas, but I was simply stating that there is a proper way to go about these things. To answer a question asked above, I have seen the job descriptions and amount of “special assistants” and their salaries, but I will stress that a weblog is not the place to discuss who and/or what needs cut. That would be very unprofessional.
Dustin
Dear Sound Advice,
You’re daggone right I’m frustrated!
I’ve spent the last two years researching, reading, learning and trying to do what’s right. Right for the kids. Right for the teachers and school employees. Right for the parents. Right for the taxpayers.
This county school systems needs two new school board members who will support change….not just for the sake of change….but for the sake of the children.
The information that Dustin and Paul are suggesting they need is available from teachers…from principals….from LSIC chairs…who most are frustrated over the current state of our school system.
Are they waiting for the Central Office to give the information to them?
I’m sorry if I’ve crossed the “proverbial line” with some of my comments. I’m tired of being nice. I’m tired of not being able to address issues important to the education of our children and our school system.
So when someone, anyone, posts here about an issue that they don’t know anything about, well, I thing I should help bring some clarity.
Dear Quiet Observer,
Your right, all of our candidates should come clean. While we should commend Howe and Vincent for having the courage to post their opinions here, all 13 candidates should tell the voters who they are and why the want to serve on the school board.
Dear Be Informed,
If I could get two votes to videotape all of the board meetings and then show them on the school board cable channel 18, then you could see and hear what happens during the entire meeting.
Wonder which of the 13 would support that motion at the very first meeting? What kind of research or information would they need before they could vote YES or NO.
Dear No Spin Zone,
Thank you!
Full disclosure on an anonymous weblog seems like a futile effort though. I can’t wait to read the responses.
Mike
Mike Queen: You have some very skewed views of the world. I live in Bridgeport and I don’t hear anyone talking about a bond except those who preface the discussion with I will vote for a bond that has ‘this’ in it or what they need to do to pass a bond is ‘this.’ So I don’t agree with you that people who WILL NEVER support a school bond are out talking about it. People who want to PASS a bond are out talking about it. The problem is no one on the School Board or in the Administration is listening to them. You are the most arrogant of anyone making statements on this blog as if they are facts. I’ve never seen an elected official conduct them self the way you have on this blog, berating people and potential voters. I don’t even know Paul Howe or Dustin Vincent, but for you to state that “they don’t have any idea what all needs to be considered to develop a long-term plan” is pretty presumptuous on your part and unfair. How do you know what they know? Maybe they are better prepared for the school board than you were. Again, I live in Bridgeport and I haven’t heard anything further about the $3 million property since last spring. You can keep telling yourself all those far-fetched ideas about why people don’t want a school at Charles Pointe, like people thought it was near Buffalo Wild Wings, but the fact is no one likes the Christie, Comvest Compton Corton TIFed “not free” property deal, it stinks and everyone in Bridgeport and the County knows it! As far as Johnson Elementary is concerned you are right it needs 6 classrooms, actually it needs 4 classrooms (2 to replace the 2 kindergartens currently in modulars + 2 for Pre-K) and it needs a music room and a computer lab (the other 2 current modulars) and of course a gym. As far as the student count in Johnson, Mike, you can’t do math. How does replacing modulars with permanent classrooms add children? Those kids are already there. All you add is the 40 Pre-K kids. According to current enrollment numbers, there are 604 at Johnson, but 57 are at Cubby’s in Pre-K, so there are 547 students in the school + 40 Pre-Ks = 587. Even if you max out each grade level Kindergarten to 5th with 100 each + 40 PreK= max for Johnson 640.
Next on the list of your misinformation: last July’s bond. Yes, I remember it, I’m looking at a copy of it right now, but I certainly don’t see “major improvements to every school in this county” as you stated above—No Adamston, No Wilsonburg, No NorthView, No Norwood, etc.
Your 2nd post today “250-300 students east of Oliverio’s” Dr. Friebel has said repeatedly there have been 150 students identified from the outlying areas to attend Charles Pointe. We’d better go house by house, before anyone in Bridgeport is going to believe there are 250-300!
In my opinion, the reasons the bond failed last July, Clarksburg residents do not want WI at RCB, no money for many of the schools, TURF is seen as a luxury not a need, no one wants the Charles Pointe school, and the teachers and other BOE employees do not like or support Friebel and wanted him to know it and the one point we can agree on, the lack of confidence.
If you, Mr. Queen talk to the other BOE members like you write to the bloggers on this site and you think that is “diplomacy and reasoning” you may have more reasons you can’t get a motion seconded.
Am I being ignored? Or are our Board candidates afraid to take a position on my previous question?
Earlier in the blog I stated that I was for Paul Howe and Dustin Vicent. I am now 100% supporting those two.
PH and DV
I appreciate that you post your opinions on here and hope you both stay around to listen to us bloggers once your elected in.
I don’t see the problem with a new school at Charles Pointe? Where else in Bridgeport could you see a new school being built. Simpson is 100 years old. The children that go to Simpson could go to the new CP school. The fields and recreation access at the new at Charles Pointe school would surpass anywhere else.
Also, there would millions of $ of infrastructure that would be contributed along with the property.
Dustin,
You failed to answer the question as it relates to Dr. Friebel. What is your relationship to Dr. Friebel? Do you know him? If so, how long have you known him? Has you or the company you work for done any work or been involved in any projects for the HCBOE when led by Dr. Friebel? In the interest of full disclosure, please answer the questions. Thank you in lieu of your answers.
Quiet Observer,
To answer your question, yes I do know Dr. Friebel, we used to workout at the same gym in the mornings back in 1998 through 2000 or so. I have only had conversations with him back then, and none of those conversations BOE related. I also have not had the opportunity to speak with him since.
My company has never worked for the HCBOE, and/or Dr. Friebel in any aspect.
Hope that answers your question.
Dustin
MR. QUEEN – televised meetings- How Nice. And would be a very valuable communication tool for the HCBE. Agreed…..
NOW—- where did the unbudgeted, unrestricted $1,120,000 F/Y 2007-2008 go? SEPCIFICS please. If not an impact on the local are via salaries, it still could have impact our area (and students / teachers) thru school imporvement spending, etc.
” So when someone, anyone, posts here about an issue that they don’t know anything about, well, I thing I should help bring some clarity.” Quote -MQ. You should learn from your own post, Mr.Queen.
PRE-K — it is not required that parents send their 4 year olds to Pre-K. Two reasons this Pre-K was developed – 1) Increase head county for the local Board to support funding income and 2) see #1. It is all about the dollar!!!!! There is no study to support any “educational” merit for Pre-K. And why do you think a Board turns to “day care centers” for Pre-K ? Because the school facilities are not designed to handle children of this age – classrooms, toys and teaching aids, teachers, daily routine, busing (now that is scarey just in itself). Years ago “Pre-K” was known as responsible parenting.
Joseph,
The SBA application for the Charles Pointe school is for 330 students. Less than 10 elementary-aged kids live there at Charles Pointe! Even if you bus kids from the areas north of Bridgeport to there—-it is still not enough to half fill that school. Building the school at Charles Pointe doesn’t help Simpson or the kids who attend there. In the BOE’s current plan about 100 of Simpson’s current students would attend the new school. What about the other 300 left ? Don’t they deserve new and updated facilities? Build new at Simpson, tear down the old “tower” and increase the capacity of that school. By doing this, you have addressed the oldest school building in the county—-GONE, and you have provided better facilities for more children. You also have helped the viability of that neighborhood and the downtown that the City and business owners have invested in and worked hard to improve. Charles Pointe may need a grade school in the future, but not now, it doesn’t make sense. Johnson and Simpson need the dollars NOW!
KOOL-AID ALERT!!!
I didn’t know much about Dustin V. After reading his blogs concerning the county office staff…I don’t need to know anything else…It’s too late, he’s already drank of the central office “kool-aid”.
Underdog,
Are you sure you can read? I read the Dustin V. posts and see it very differently. The only Kool-Aid drinker on here is Mike Queen…someone get him some valium and some psych drugs to go with his Kool-Aid —STAT!
To A-Team: Yes, I can read thanks to my teachers…not overpaid county office flunkies who trip over themselves while trying to find more for everyone else to do…
A-Team
please consider the source
I think underdog spelled backwards is Mike Queen.
Thanks MainStreet, That explains a lot!
Mikie: “Throwing you under the bus” would be far too
lenient after the disparaging remarks you afforded
Dustin Vincent. Being the KNOWING person that you
are, and the neonate of the HBOE, how can you justify
even thinking that YOU GAVE THE BOARD OPPORTUNITIES TO MAKE CHANGE! Appreciating what I know presently, and from the time you have been elected to the HCBOE, I think you are fortunate
to be offered a chair at the meetings. So the NEONATE
is encouraging a Superintendent search begin while
Mr.Friebel holds that position. You lack confidence in the Board. You cannot get a SECOND from the BOARD. Ever wonder how they feel about you? You
flew in with full intention to rile the Board, Bridgeport,
and the county with your PICTURE production. Right off the bat you usurped in inordinate amount of time and money. Oh just an op for Mikie to show everyone what he was worth. Thank goodness for hooded friends to quell that mess. Talk about an EVALUATION PROCESS! If there was one for the likes of you, you would be found sitting at your typewriter in Eassrview, looking for another board to fool. Please spare the blog.
Anonymous,
You would have to rebuild Simpson not upgrade it. Most of the kids need bused to Simpson and its location is not that easy to get into. Also, a lot businesses have not invested in downtown. If not for the sidewalk project, downtown would not look very good.
Joseph,
I’m sorry if you didn’t fully read what I had posted above. I have copied it here for you. “Build new at Simpson, tear down the old “tower” and increase the capacity of that school.”
I will go on to say tear down everything except the newest wing. Build everything else NEW! So we agree on that.
Simpson is a heck of a lot easier to get to for the bulk of the students who attend classes there than Route 131 to Charles Point would be. Have you driven that road? Simpson is much more centrally located to the attendance area. I disagree with your thoughts regarding downtown. I think business owners are investing and doing their part and it is the responsibility of the City to do what they have done with the downtown sidewalks and the entire beautification project. They have stepped up and done it well. Those are our tax dollars along with grant money in our downtown. Are we going to walk away now? Are we going to put them at a disadvantage now? Do you know how much daily traffic Simpson Elementary brings into our downtown EVERY school day?
So let’s review, building new at Simpson will provide better facilities for MORE children, more centrally located to the attendance area and complements our economic development dollars and plans for our downtown. Sounds like the winning plan to me!
Extend the major overhaul plans to Johnson and we will have provided new or significantly improved facilities to EVERY child who attends elementary school in Bridgeport. That trumps the BOE plan for Charles Pointe by a mile!
To Joseph:
With that deduction, do we then bus those children to Jenny’s School. She liked Bridgeport schools so much
that the day they announced CHARLES POINT they
moved to Florida. Can a different location make it all better.
To No Spin Zone’s question,
“Would I have seconded Queen’s motion for $800 for an increase in the employee supplements to come from the unencumbered and unbudgeted money?”
The quick answer is no. The motion has no merit as the agenda of the September 28, special meeting had no item addressing teacher pay raises. No board can take action on an item that is not on the agenda. So therefore, no action as to pay raises could be taken. Even if you were for teachers getting the money, we can not vote for it until it is an agenda item. The October 2 Board meeting addressed teacher and service personnel raises.
Now for the “no spin” answer. Our teachers and service personnel have not been treated fairly over the last few decades with respect to pay. Mr. Queen will attest to this as we have talked about this situation before. We vote for a Levy that is supposed to fund, among other things, pay increases for our teachers and service personnel. I am not sure what percentage they are not receiving, but I know a proportion of those dollars are being redirected to Central Office Employees. With respect to the unbudgeted monies that Mr. Queen was speaking about, I would need to take a hard look at our facilities needs before giving an $800 allotment to our teachers. Our teachers deserve it, and I will do everything I can to change the treatment of our professional staff in the field. However, we have such a poor preventative maintenance program for our schools that we need to look at the bigger picture.
I have said it before; we can’t expect people to vote for bonds filled with maintenance issues that should be taken care of as they arise. This is an area that will get my full attention when elected to the board. I am for new schools, but I believe our HCBOE should be more responsible for the maintenance of our existing facilities.
Paul J
Isn’t Mike Queen just concerned about a school being located close to Crystal Ridge because he’s in on that development and wants to make CA$H? Anyone know anything about that?
Mike
1)The HCBE had $1,120,000 (minimum) of unrestricted, unbudgeted funds from the State of WV? The legislature just “gave” the HCBE the money? Where is it today?
2) Why was the public not allowed to speak at one of your meetings
NO OLD QUEEN: I had heard that too, but I don’t know if it is true. I do know that Jim Christie owns property at Charles Pointe and Heritage Farms, both areas zoned for a new Charles Pointe school. Dr. Friebel lives at Maple Lake that area too would attend Charles Pointe——I bet owning property in the newest school district would make your property worth more?!? What do you think? Just a little bonus on the rest of the money flying around on this deal!
If Mike Queen isn’t making money on what he’s proposing, it would be amazing.
I only hear bits a pieces of rumors about the happenings over there but haven’t heard this one yet.
please tell me this isn’t true?
It’s true. Check out the official records in the courthouse!!!!
Mike Queen,
I think you are trying to make change a good thing at the school board. However, as I read this Blog, you ask questions of at least two candidates that you apparently believe should answer these defining questions. And to their credit they have. Maybe to their detriment (it’s easier to defeat someone than elect them). Where is your man Chuck Reider? What is his position on the school’s application for an SBA grant, and the committing of $1 million a year, to build this school? Would he, as past head custodian, agree with Mr. Howe’s repeated comments on the lack of allocating of funds for general maintenance? You question Mr. Vincent on his loyalty to central office staff, what about Chuck? He has worked with those people for years. I’m sure he would have an opinion on that too. Help Chuck log on and save it in his favorites so he can participate. I would like to see what Chuck has to say.
Mike, I would like to pose a question to you and the public at large. Do we need to invest in Pre K facilities? Are we going to pay salaried teachers, their going wage to baby sit 4and 5 year olds?
What happens to the child on Fridays as the Pre K mandate is only Monday thru Thursday? Who takes care of the lad then? Most parents work 5 days a week. So if you need a day care your child will not be in a county ran Pre K. Because, a day care provider can’t offer anyone day care only on Fridays.
And a second question. Are these 4 and 5 year old children mature enough to thrive in a county ran Pre K? I think the private providers are more capable of providing this service to that age group, and to the parents that need it. The only people I know who can take advantage of the Pre K at an existing school will be the stay at home moms and dads that could have kept the children at home all week, including Friday.
Mr. Queen what are your thoughts?
Mike, while you’re at it, is it true you have some financial interest or represent in some way the development at Crystal Ridge?
All,
I have to run to my son’s basketball game, but here are some quick answers.
1. No. I am not an owner nor do I have a financial interest in Crystal Ridge. The Lang family, who are friends of mine, sold that property to Dan Ryan Builders. Prior to that sale, I was looking at building a home there – but the new owner will only allow homes to be built by his company.
When I was president of Bridgeport Little League(four years ago) I made a presentation to the Bridgeport City Council and the Parks & Recreation Committee asking them to buy that property to build baseball fields, soccer fields and a new YMCA.
2. Pre-K is mandatory by the Fall of 2012. Whether I like it or not, we have to offer it.
3. Yes, I think it is ridiculous to offer Pre-K only four days a week. What are working parents supposed to do on Fridays?
4. Chuck Reider can answer for himself and will welcome your questions at any time. But he isn’t real comfortable with computers. He asked me to give you his home phone number: 745-4932. He usually goes to bed by 9:30 or 10pm. But he is up early and can take your calls during the day.
5. Lilly -T: It’s spelled East View. That’s where I live.
6. Underdog and Joseph: This blog is a tough bunch. Stand your ground and realize that it’s easy to be brass when you don’t have to post your real name.
7. Listen folks, I can’t answer questions on this blog every 20 minutes! I have to work for a living!!! I check things out early in the morning and when I get home from work. Sometimes I get on the computer around lunch time. That’s the best I can do.
Give me a break will ya?
More later,
Mike
Dear ??????,
You have some really good points about a Pre-K program for 4 year olds!
I have many of the same concerns.
I forgot to mention that earlier. Got to go.
Mike
Mr. Queen, don’t you really mean that the Lang family, who are not only friends of yours, but are in fact your family by marriage (your sister is married in so Mr. Lang is your brother-in-law) still has a pecuniary interest in that property at Crystal Ridge? Come on, Mr. Queen. The combined records of the assessor, county clerk and secretary of state bear this out! Thus, while you may not have an official, “on the book” interest in a school being located close to there, you certainly have an interest. Otherwise, you would have stated up front your sister is a Lang!! Give it up!!!
For we all sit in a circle and suppose while Truth sits in the center and knows, (to borrow from BE INFORMED). Bevis, I cannot thank you enough. We have known for a while, but did not seek verification
that Mike is part owner (?) of Crysta; Ridge! Further, he
dosen’t know the difference between a brother-in-law
and a friend.
Dear Bevis and Butthead,
My brother in law DOES NOT own any part of Crystal Ridge….not even a pecuniary interest. My brother in law’s cousins (Rob, Suzy and Joy) own that property.
The combined records of the assessor, the county clerk and the secretary of state will, in fact, bear that out.
That’s the problem with this blog and allowing the “posters” to remain anonymous. Posters like Bevis and Lilly T can post downright lies on this blog and get away with it. Where’s the accountability in that?
And then for “Bulldog” to claim “It’s true. Check out the records at the courthouse”……what a downright lie!
Suggesting that good, honest and hardworking families like the Lang’s (both families!!) would have anything to do with that kind of stuff is not fair to them. Any of them.
My brother in law is one of the hardest working guys I know. He and my sister work hard for the community, too, always willing to sponsor events, youth sports, special projects and academic programs.
They have done well because they work hard and treat their employees and partners with respect.
My brother in law’s main office is located on Rt. 76 below Cleveland Brothers. He rents land off of the old Middletown Home Sales people where his pipeyard is located.
So, Bulldog, Bevis and Butthead, I will offer you a $1,000 REWARD for any document showing that my brother in law owns or has any interest whatsoever in Crystal Ridge housing development. If you can’t produce any deed or document then you should have the courtesy to offer an apology to the Langs — both families.
FINALLY, if this is the kind false accusations that the blogmaster is going to continue to allow on this site – I’M DONE HERE!
It’s one thing for us bloggers to bicker back and forth and maybe even get a little tough with each other once in a while. But to attack my position by attacking other innocent people – that’s a bunch of crap.
I’ve said it before, I’m fair game. Leave my family AND friends out of it.
BEFORE I SIGN OFF…….I have one final question (from “Answer the Question”) to answer regarding the urestricted excess funds. Additional projects that were not included in the original budget but were funded this year include:
1.$250,000 to add five new counselors for our elementary schools (ongoing annual commitment).
$380,000 to give all of the school employes a $200 across the board raise (ongoing annual commitment).
About $85,000 (if I remember correctly) to purchase the small house behind Simpson Elementary (one time expense).
Since we have to come up with the money before we are reimbursed, $340,000 will have to be used to provide four Pre-K classes in a building leased from Cubby’s (committed for up to three years)…which I voted against.
The balance is still available.
Mr Queen,
Thank you for your participation on this blog. I’ve learned and have been forced to consider new information through these exchanges.
When you are able to relax and reflect on a couple of your critics, please consider that rather than having an undercurrent of rumors going on throughout the community about any question of your family’s financial interests or integrity, the fact that the blog brought them out in the open allowed you to kill the rumor immediately rather than let it fester without you knowing about it behind your back.
It takes a hard shell to serve the public. Part of that is always fighting conspiracy theories that are just figments of another’s imagination.
Mike Queen,
What you rightfully condem Bulldog, Bevis and Butthead for doing (making false accusations without a single thread of evidence) sounds exactly like what you accused Mr. Vincen and Mrs. Collins.
I have not heard an apology from you to either one of them.
First, Mr. Vincent is running for the Board and you slander him without regard. Secound, Mrs. Collins never asked to be involved in your theory. Besides, I’m sure she is as hard working as your famility and deserve her position just the same.
And blaiming the employee for accepting the pay that is offered them is completly unfair. I do not know of one person, me included, that would refuse a raise.
If you have an issue with salaries it is with the Board and not the employees.
So, what do you say…How about I’m sorry to Mr. Vincent and Mrs. Collins
Mr. Queen,
is it true that you have been meeting with Jim Christie to further discuss this agenda?
Mr. Queen – thank you for your reply.
You have the knack of answering a question yet not answering a question. The $1,120,000 was spent on the items you mentioned – we are to asusme.
One of those points – $380,000 div $200 = 1900 employees. $1,120,000 div $800 = 1400 employees.
Do you see the problem? Where are the other 500 employees?
And $340,000 for Cubby’s project that was covered in a local paper just this past week as a “contract yet to be discussed with the owner” . So this a “reserved” $$$$number.
BE INFORMED – you have to add payroll taxes and retirement to any raise that school employees get that’s why it seems as if Queens math doesn’t add up. I’m an accountant by education and I know this to be true. As far as where the extra money has gone my wife is an elementary school teacher and the addition of the 5 new counselors has had a dramatic effect on the grade schools throughout the county. Im not a big fan of Mike Queen but I know that if it wasn’t for him we would have the additional counselors. Now thats not the entire amount you questioned but it was a big item on his list. I have never written on this blog but have learned more about our school system since Queen has been writing and I have children in all three levels with one graduating this spring. MR. QUEEN – you need to get a thicker skin. All of the readers here do not subscribe to the personal attacks or “downright lies” as you refered. We can separate fact from fiction. For what its worth I think you are doing a good job even though I disagree with you i never have to worry about you riding the fence on an issue. I like the fact that you change your mind but I wish you would do it more often. I didn’t vote for you last time but will next time. Dont’ give up the fight. Despite your losses with the school board there are teachers and parents who appreciate a lot of the things you have accomplished. Please continue to blog and we will continue to read. sam
MISTAKE. Being nervouse and a first time blogger what i meant to say was: Im not a big fan of Mike Queen but I know that if it wasn’t for him we would NOT have gotten the additional counselors.” sorry.
And now we have the China connection. Watch this one very close folks, I think I know where it’s comeing from.
Looks like Bevis hit a nerve fit for a Queen! If the particular accusations about your family’s, and therefore your connections to Crystal Ridge, Mr. Queen, are not true, then just exactly WHAT is your connection, directly or indirectly to the development at Crystal Ridge??? And, do yoy not agree that the school you advocate in that area will make Crystal Ridge a very attractive area of property from the seller’s and/or developer’s standpoint? What say you?
I would also like to know Mr. Queen’s connection to Ruby Ridge, ah, err, Crystal Light, awe, I mean Crystal Ridge. Thank you.
I have a feeling that with the news I just heard, this blog is about to get moving.
I’m for Dustin and Paul, enough of the status quo!
FRIEBEL RESIGNS!!!
hey anybody out there got any scoop on Friebel quitting? Does he have another job or did some people force him out?
MR. QUEEN- you wanted to know when you got it right?
YOU DID …. inmaking the drug sweep in the local schools. Keep up the good work !
Thank you………
I heard Carl Friebel will go work for Comvest to start his own school district at Charles Pointe.
TO ALL POSTERS – we ALL need to refocus. The CP school application was an action taken by the HCBE that will affect ALL of Harrison County – for years. The majority of parents- taxpayers, etc – in the directly affected Bridgeport area did not( do not now) support this application to the SBA. Their voices were never heard by the HCBE. Their opinions were never asked or considered by the HCBE. Do not blame Bridgeport. They in turn are not blaming you for the current conditions in your community school. Neither group is at fault. See how this works? Refocus.
The HCBE – in whole or in part; intentionally or perhaps unintentionally – has created this growing split of unity within Harrison County. IF they can keep us divided then they can , as we now know, put off doing the difficult work to maintain unity in support of COUNTYWIDE education improvements. THEY failed the VOTER’S exam last summer. It wasn’t the way HCBE would have us believe – that is “we (the voters) failed to support (pass) their bond proposal”. Refocus.
After these current Board Members are gone and deeds forgotten ( except in their own minds), their pictures taken and plaques presented in appreciation of their “years of faithful service to the children of Harrison County”, the parents and teachers must still deal with pressing issues facing our children’s education. Issues left unsolved during those “years of faithful service….” Those plaques won’t mention the unnecessary CP school application to SBA; poor management of budget dollars; unacceptable utilization % of school facilities; failure to redistrict; cost overruns due to inept planning; not supporting teacher pay supplements when unrestricted dollars were then available. Refocus.
Can anyone name the Board members of 1976 or 1985 or 1991? Can you then tell us what they did?
Education is COUNTYWIDE. That’s why it is called the HARRISON COUNTY BOARD of EDUCATION.
The “Greatest Needs” committees put project lists together and did a great job. But there was NO FOLLOW UP. 50-60 people showing up at RCB for a report. Really now! That showed no concern. This report only magnified the needs! Unintentionally, it also aided dis-unity within the County.
Any surprise really that the “community” leaders from around the COUNTY approached Mr. Queen and the HCBE venting their concerns? These are all good citizens with their community’s best interests at hand but at the end of the day, this COUNTY must be unified in their approach to the educational demands of our COUNTIES’ children. What is good for Lumberport is good for South Harrison or Bridgeport or Nutter Fort or Salem. Vice versa. Refocus.
There is no shining knight on the horizon to mend this growing split among us. The mending must come from within…. it starts from within each of us. All needs will not be met all of the time or at one time. Refocus.
This Blog has multiple posts on “Metro Government”. No chance when we can not even get “metro” education working.
This Board feeds on COUNTYWIDE discontent. That is the only way they get away with some of the things they do and avoid doing those thing they should. Stop the discontent NOW. Refocus.
CONCERNED – I agree that we need to come together to build a school bond that the county’s voters will pass.
That said, we need to prioritize. STEP 1—The one issue that I believe you touched on that the majority of the county CAN AGREE on is the SBA application for the Charles Pointe grade school. We agree that the majority of the county’s citizens do not want it. We need to take the first step of coming together in pursuing denial of this application that is currently with the SBA. Countless posters on this blog have included contact information for Dr. Mark Manchin at the SBA in their posts—I will include it again.
People have to pick up the phone or write the email asking for the SBA to deny this application. Spread the word to your friends and relatives; help those who are not computer savvy—give them the phone # or mailing address. This is will leave $3 million of local money in the county pot and I truly believe, give our county a better shot of securing matching funds with a bond later in the year. It certainly will be a better deal for our county to receive “$20+ million” in a grant vs. “$6 million” in a grant. So whatever your personal reason happens to be—you think the SBA application should have been for another individual school in the county, or you think if the SBA gives Harrison County $6 million in April, they are probably not going to turn around and give us $20 million more in the next round, or some other reason—it doesn’t matter and you don’t have to say what your reason is when you contact the SBA. Just tell Dr. Manchin that you live in Harrison County, and you do not want the SBA to fund the Charles Pointe school. It is that simple. If we join together and get this application denied I think we will feel more like a county-wide team ready to take on the next challenge.
State of West Virginia School Building Authority
2300 Kanawha Boulevard, East
Charleston, WV 25311-2306
Telephone: (304) 558-2541 Fax: (304) 558-2539
E-mail Address: mmanchin@wvsba.state.wv.us
REFOCUS —- more than ever now. A new budget for FY 2008 -09 before June 01; SBA presentations; address teacher retirements and placements; Dr. Friebel resigns June 30th; two new Board members July 1st; bond call ready by September 3; and unify a splintered County during all of this time.
God Bless Us All…..some have seen fit to take Him out of the classroom but I believe, it is now time for all of us to unify in asking for his guidence. I ask you to join me.
CONCERNED… great post.
This Board has fed on COUNTYWIDE discontent. Times are changing for the better, more to come….
However, we can and will get “metro” education working. Head position is now up for consideration, two NEW board members with a new agenda, and thanks to Mr. Queen more interest to over see our school system. Things should be moving in the right direction. Let’s keep the heat on the 2 board members who want to hire a superintendent before we have Two New leaders elected. We the people can not let them do this.
Which two want to do this? and why would they not think that a search committee consisting of the 5 existing members and the two members-elect not be a good idea?
If the school board is permitted to hire a new superintendent before the two new school board members are elected they should be IMPEACHED. Queen said in the newpspaper today that he wants to wait but will the others want to wait? Where do they stand? Mr. Friebel isn’t the only one that needs to go. There is a lot of dead wait in the Kelly Miller building makes $90K a year or more. Thepaper said it was unanimous to accept his resignation so maybe Queen has more support than he leads on. I was told by my daughters teacher that Friebel and Queen have been after each other for months. About your new school in Bridport you should be happy your getting it. Come to Shinnston and look at lumberport grade school and the middle school. We’d take your old Simpson in aminute. AT least its clean and warm. Does nothing make you people happy. I vote for Donnie Miles and Paul Howe for board. sam
TO SAM I AM FROM SHINNSTON: You need to read CONCERNED’s and CONCERNED, too’s posts above. We are supposed to be helping each other. The Charles Pointe school only hurts Lumberport Elementary and Lumberport Middle—don’t you get it? If the SBA gives Harrison County the $6 million to build Charles Pointe, do you really think they are going to give us additional matching funds for a bond? So maybe if the SBA denies the application for Charles Pointe, we would get $20 million to help pay for new schools in other parts of the county as well as in Bridgeport. Which do you think is better $6 million or $20 million? The last bond was structured with matching funds and had more than $7 million in SBA funds toward a Lumberport Middle School as well as funds for a new WI Middle and other schools. Without the matching funds you are going to make the school board choose between projects—-hope your isn’t the one left out.
Have you ever been in the 1909 tower of Simpson Elementary? Have you seen the music room in the basement that the music teacher has to put the music stands up at night because if they sit in the water overnight the bottoms rust? Have you seen the bathrooms in the basement—-you’d hold it! People shouldn’t judge others unless you’ve walked a mile in their shoes.
Here’s to a bond that will create better facilities for all the children in HARRISON COUNTY.
The headlines for today include the retirement announcements of Fidel and Friebel—-coincidence, I think not. LOL
BRIDGEPORT RESIDENT – listen to what you are saying. Walk a mile in who’s shoes? My families shoes? A new school for 400 people would be weclomed in every community is this county except for Bridgeport. Whats wrong with you? We have more than 600 at Big Elm and Lumberport is in terrible shape. No I havenot been in the Tower. Have you ever been to either school in Lumberport? Of course you havenot. I don/t support big schools for little kids. And becuase you cant get your way you want to kill the deal for $6 million free from the state. I bite my tonge to think that Bridgepotr is getting the free money and not my area of the county. But if the money goes to you then maybe we can get ours from the bond. John Marcio is on the bond committee and he told us in Lumberport that there is no free money in the bond. So is he not telling the truth or should I trust you. Or are you going to kill it for all of us. You people don’t know when to quit do you. Adn you want me to work with your for whats best for the county. Right. Bridgeport has Cann and Queen on the school board. Shinnston has Currey but he is quitting. We may not have any one when the election comes. So tell me again why I should take your word. I may not be as smart as you but if you want entire county to work together then why don’t you start inBridgeport. You seem to have advise for the rest of us but won’t take you own. The world doesnot rotate around Bridgeport. Sorry. sam
sam,
are you from Lumberport or Shinnston? You just said both in your post above? which is it?
John might have been speaking of the Greatest Needs bond proposal, it had no free money, however, there was $20 Million of free money on the last bond (July)
there needs to be that same type of amount worked into the November bond, and if I’m reading this correctly, BRIDGEPORT RESIDENT is stating that to get the 6 million from the Charles Pointe school MAY jeopardize getting the 20 million for the November bond.
That 20 million means money for your area, and the 6 million doesn’t. Which part is confusing you? that blogger is trying to do what is better for the county and you are attacking them trying to make it a “world revolves around Bridgeport” thing.
Sam, you are the one who needs to quit biting your tongue and see the big picture and try to work together.
Also, when did Queen move to Bridgeport?
Last I heard he lives in East View.
sam
I also take exception to your comment “you people don’t know when to quit, do you”
NO ONE should ever quit, moving foward and continuously fighting for what you believe and what you want is how things get done in this country.
Sitting around throwing remarks at those who do fight for their causes just shows your faults and shortcomings in your own level of commitment. This is what we need to eliminate.
If Lumberport helps fight for Bridgeport and Clarksburg’s causes, then Clarksburg and Bridgeport can return the favor and fight for Lumberport’s causes.
And without that, you tell me how Lumberport can have the political pull on its own to get things done.
Lets work together.
SAM I AM FROM SHINNSTON:
I will tell you this, Mr. Marchio is a fine man who is working to help everyone and he is 100% right; there are no SBA funds tied to the “Greatest Needs Bond,” which was put together by a citizens’ group, not the BOE. I am trying to describe to you a circumstance under which if the SBA does not approve Charles Pointe, our county would have the opportunity to get some form of matching funds (free money) for a bond, not necessarily the Greatest Needs Bond. Good Luck to Lumberport / Shinnston in getting a new Lumberport Middle as well as other improvements in your feeder area. I certainly will support a bond that helps your area as well as the entire county, including Bridgeport. By the way, I have been in Lumberport Middle School. A Charles Pointe school will do nothing to get rid of our “Tower” at Simpson, what about the kids who have to stay there? That is one of our points in Bridgeport, we think major additions and replacements should be made for nearly the same money that will help ALL our grade school students, not just the 330 chosen to attend Charles Pointe. There are other reasons the majority of citizens in Bridgeport do not support the school at Charles Pointe, you can read about many of them by going back and reading the archives on this blog (click on the Sept, Oct, Nov, Dec in the upper right hand corner). I am not trying to offend you in any way. I just think if the county’s citizens worked together we could all get the improvements that our communities need and have a better shot at MORE money from the SBA for the county.
SAM …..go back in the posts and read and read again several times the posts of CONCERNED and CONCERNED too ……February 20th.
I have received numerous comments on the postings of Sam I am from Shinnston. This is not Sam DeMarco. I am Sam DeMarco the Mayor of Shinnston and I have not posted anything but this message of clarification.
Mr. DeMarco — anyone that knows you should not have confused your fine work for the City of Shinnston with the comments made by the referenced “Sam I Am in Shinnston” . Thank you for joining the blog and please return soon.
Exit 12, yes you are correct in saying that Mr. Queen lives in East View. And yes, that is a Clarksburg address. However, Mr. Queen is a parent of a bridgeport student. Many of the children from Anmore and East View attend Bport elementary and high schools.
Maybe a new elementary school, as one of the candidates described, should be built on Rt. 58. That school would provide the children from Quiet Dell and Stonewood a new (and needed) facility AND… it would help deconsolidate Johnson where some of these children are comming from (East View and Anmore) and making that school over crowded. The Rt. 58 school site would be good for everyone. Located to meet the current populations need and reduce ouside areas bussing to Johnson… Out side the box? I don’t think so, just common sense. That is who we need to elect to this School Board. Some new people with common sense. I am voting for the only two candidates that are professional and have children in the system. They have the right ideas.
On the radio today, the people listened patiently to Herr Goebbels reveal (inadvertently ?) his aspiration to expand and blend the Wars on Education and Drugs in the propaganda pits — schools– and make them almost fulltime and almost everywhere. He would like to have drug sniffing dogs in the schools all the time and –for good measure, and just to be sure, no doubt — then follow the students home to continue nosing around .
[gulp !]
Well, when you conflate the issues of education and drugs, Gosh darn it, you just never know what you’re going to get. A lot of concerned parents called up to make legitimate complaints about this new job taken on by the state, but this is exactly what the state wants — the state wants to distract parents from their own job with their children at home. But just as control of the words will lead to victory, so does the ability to dig the trenches lead to victory also
And make no mistake, parents do have duties and privileges, not with standing the warnings and reassurances of the state to the contrary.
The job of a parent is twofold:
(1) to demonstrate their love by preparing their children to understand and manage the physical universe and relationships at home and in the free market by fortifying them physically and intellectually and morally. They must be imbued with Reason.
The state has promised [gulp !] to look after this delicate matter. Some promise. I will not bore you with the results. Herr Goebbels explains and apologizes and alternately minimizes or glorifies the horrific results every week on the radio.
(2) A parent should also be a trustee or steward of the environment and landscape — but not in the commonly discussed ecological terms — for the child, until the child is emancipated. The parent must do what ever it takes to ensure that their children have as much Liberty in the future as the parent has at present. The state is supposed to manage this matter also, but they are always
conflicted. It can do nothing without taking away property and liberty. It can’t keep its promise without, well, without flagrantly violating its promise to protect your liberty.
The ability of the parasitic state to sap the people of liberty depends on the willingness of the people–its wards — to give up their liberty, hopefully without too much bloodshed. This is only accomplished by driving a wedge — any kind of wedge — between the people on one side, and their rights, their families and their heritage on the other side. Since the Founding Fathers and the founding documents — with all their impied emanations and penumbra — stand in the way, the state constantly works on this wedge in so many ways. One way is to take all the children — yeah, the children taken forcibly every morning by the state — and inculcate them with the notion that they need to lose some of their rights some of the time — usually using the excuses of ’safety’ or ‘efficiencyf’ — for the state’s benefit — and randomly to boot, just to lower the people ’s suspicions. This improves the chance that atleast a sizeable minority, if not a majority, of the highschool graduates –yeah, the graduates who can’t read or write well (but that’s another story) — will be accustomed to the idea of giving up their rights when the state thinks they should to keep all those lousy state activities ’safe’ and ‘efficient’. The state doesn’t need all the graduates to mindlessly give up their rights. The state knows perfectly well that in a democracy it needs only a simple majority on its side.
So it is not just necessary and sufficient for vigilant and courageous parents to confront the state and imbue their children with the notions of liberty and reason. These parents and their efforts are a sideshow — the state doesn’t need them or give their concerns any credibilty — and why would they ? All the while these noisy attentive parents make objections, the state can lay claim to the defense that they are “listening to the concerns”, that there needs to a sense of “compromise”, that “there should be discussions”, etc. Paraphrasing Chancellor Hitler, summarily dismissing his critics …” I don’t need you; I have your children in my schools”.
So, what did the children actually learn during the sweeping drug raids in school as they sat obediently and quietly in the dark , holding their sphincters, with strange armed men and guard dogs sniffing around their persons and property without cause that day ?
[Gulp !] It wasn’t math or science, was it Goebbels?
OK. I spend most of today reading this website. I am not the mayor of Shinnston but a lifelong resident of Shinnston. My grandchildren go to Lport grade and middle schools. $20 million was available for the July bond. It failed. According to Queen, $6 million is available for your new grade school and 1 million will go to Simson and Johnson to take off the old modulaurs and to add the pre-k rooms. How is that not improving your two schools and gettting a new one to? I am being a team player. I want you people to get your new school and your upgrades so we dont have to increase the bond in the fall. Im dont dumb. A new school for 600 students will cost a lot more than one for 330 students and according to “MORE INFO NEEDED” you already have about 1100 kids in grade school in Bridgeport. And the last bond had $2 million init for Johnson. A new school in bridgeport gives you three grade schools anbd the kids from outlying areas will be the ones going to the new school. you want your kids to go to a new school thats why you don’t want tthe one on the Comptons property. Thats selfish. ANd you want me to beleive that if I help you you are going to help me. I don;’t hear anyone from Maple lake complaning. I hear folks like “Main Street’ and “Diana Marra” complaning. I bet they live next to the two schools you have and they don’t like their little kids going to an old school with a brand new one for the kids from outside downtwon Bridgeport. I say bus all of the bridgeport kids to Lumberport grade school and all of the lumberport kids to Johnson and Simpson. Then we’d get a bond passed! – sam
Hey Sam – Real Mature. They are trying to focus on Harrison County as a “WHOLE” not just a select few. IT’s called selective reading – huh?
SAM YOU AM AN IDIOT!
It is ignorant people like you that make it hard to pass a bond because you can’t understand anything!
I’m thinking Sam is not really a sam, but someone that likes to stir up the masses.
who does that sound like?
To Sam I am from Shinnston—–I live in one of the “outlying areas” that would go to the new Charles Pointe grade school. I am against it. I would rather see major money invested in Johnson and Simpson grade schools. When there is a population at Charles Pointe to warrant a grade school, then build one then. You don’t live here and you don’t understand the details. I have good friends at Fairfield Farms and Auburn Woods (other outlying areas) we are all against the Charles Pointe grade school, most people in Bridgeport are.
main St.: Are his initials MQ? He really should get
back on his meds.
Main Street: Are you insinuating that “Sam I am” has been drinking the “Kool-Aid, ” too?
yeah, what’s with the Kool-Aid anyway?
Too much Sean Hannity influence.
Let’s get this blog back to the positive. We have good things to come for our school system. Soon to have two new board members and a new Superintendent.
Here’s the current list of candidates, find out what you can of each of them:
Dustin B. Vincent
Charles “Chuck” Reider
Helen M. Pritchard
Don Miles
Simon McClure
Richard L. Laughlin
James F. Lachapelle
Louis Iquinto
Paul J Howe,III
Gary W. Fain
Judy A. Dolan
William Earl Brown
Howard Dale Bailey
Simon McClure, In reading your post of Feb. 21, I was struck by your usage of the word “conflate,” so I went to Mr.Webster’s Dictionary to ascertain the meaning of “conflate”. Imagine my dismay when I discovered Webster’s has no listing for this word. I was shocked, shocked I tell you, to discover that in 2008, they have no listing for this word. Would you please enlighten the readers by defining this word for us.
Everyone else, (especially SAMIAM) use spellcheck for Pete’s sake. People will take you more seriously if you would attempt to use proper spelling and grammar.
Norm, you are probably the only person who actually read that post.
Norm, Some people like to use misspelled words and improper grammar when they create an alter ego.
Check out dictionary.com
‘Conflate’, fron the Latin ‘conflare’, to fuse together, merge or blend.
For example : The government would like to ‘conflate’ the matters of parenting and education and nutrition and the War on Drugs and obedience to state employees under one roof –specifically, theirs — between the hours of 8 and 3, Monday through Friday
Or : Traditional separation of state and federal government powers outlined by the Constitution have become ‘conflated’.
And finally : Modern teaching techniques encourage ‘group think’ in the classroom, and ‘conflate’ all the efforts and results of all the children so that everyone can feel good and promote self esteem — no matter how absurd or lackadaisical the responses.
Hope you are as discriminating and skeptical when you review the propaganda coming out of the state run schools. Save your dismay and shock –direct it at the state. Look after your children.
As an aside, before the state took over schooling, not only were children more literate and worldly, but they were often exposed to formal classical language training and their exam responses in literature, geography, history were expected to be written in Latin or Greek. And they weren’t easy questions.
Hmmm? (sorry, you won’t find this in Webster’s — it’s Latin for Hmmm?)
simon”the dictionaryoflastresort”mcclure: Sir, the BOE
has entirely too many huge issues on its plate to
even consider having a game playing, self aggrazandizing, wiccan to deal with.
This is the official order of candidates and their names as they will appear on the ballot, May 13, 2008.
1 Paul J. Howe III South Urban Dist
2 Don Miles North Urban Dist
3 Howard Dale Bailey North Urban Dist
4 R.L. (Dick) Laughlin Northern District
5 James F. Lachapelle North Urban Dist
6 Gary W. Fain Northern District
7 Wm. (Bill) Brown South Urban Dist
8 Simon McClure Eastern Dist
9 Dustin B. Vincent Eastern Dist
10 Louis J. Iquinto Eastern Dist
11 Judy Dolan Southern Dist
12 Charles “Chuck” Reider Southern Dist
13 Helen M. Pritchard Eastern Dist
.
.
Five of the candidates are from Bridgeport; four are from Clarksburg, and one from Lost Creek, Shinnston, Lumberport, and Mt. Clare.
.
Only two candidates currently have children in the school system
.
Do we know anything else about this group of candidates?
anonymous,
great info, thanks.
NUMBERS 1 and 9 for me. They are the two with kids in Harrison County schools, among many other great reasons.
Simon, my new word is ‘conflate’. I hope to use it in conversation before the day is through.
I would ask that you keep someone from the Shinnston area on the school council. Don Miles is a graduate of Shinnston High School and retired as a teacher from Lincoln. I dont know Dustin Vincent but he is another vote for Bridgeport since thats where he lives. Then BRidgeport will have 3 votes on the school board when you add Cann and Queen. Do we really need three Bridgeport votes on the school board? I here good things about Howe. His mom and his wife are teachers. Come on Bridgeport blog writers do you want all five board members to be from your city? I can support Howe if you will support Miles. sam
Whatever MQ.
you sure can trick us Shinnston folk perty darn good.
Here we go again.
Let’s try to bring this thing back around, does anybody know when the meet the candidates thing is?
Is the newspaper doing it this time?
I believe the Democratic Associations are hosting one on March 29 at the new 4-H Center.
Sam I am from Shinnston:
Dustin Vincent is a super guy and super qualified for the school board. I’d vote for him no matter where he was from. He actually is from Stonewood and graduated from WI. I am also voting for Paul Howe, perfect for the school board as well. Guess we finally have something in common—Howe. You should think about Vincent, ask around Shinnston, he has a number of supporters from there.
Bridgeport Resident, He has a great number of supporters from here.
He has been very involved with Shinnston over the past several years through his work. We know that he supports our area.
Challenge West Virginia, a state wide grass roots organization, is hosting it’s meet your candidates forum at the 4-H center March 1,2008 @ 1PM. This forum will be for School Board Candidates only. Their web site is http://www.challengewv.org/
Several posts on this site re: Metro Government. Countywide rather than the individual cities, etc. So I ask…
For the HCBE coming election, I read a list of candidates and “districts” which, after such an absence from the area, I can not match.
Could someone match up the “districts” to say the towns — example: Lost Creek or Shinnston. ?
And then — is there a rule or code or something that limits the # of members from a single district? In other words, are all districts represented by a member? Seems that would help build unity.. just a comment. And can the # of Board members be increased?
One point I would like to make about the Charles Pointe School. I feel the HBOE is not looking at the big picture. They have funding for X amount of teachers. They say they are not closing any schools. So where are the teachers coming from to work at this Charles Pointe School. In Shinnston, we have several grades that are full. We have to send children that should go to Big Elm to Lumberport Elementry. A lot of times Lumberport is full and children are bused to Adamston. Shinnston residents who pay county taxes have to go three schools away. This is not right. If we cannot support the students we have with the number of teachers, how is this going to be handled. I asked this at the open forum and have not been given an answer. I have asked to see if a second grade teacher can be added at Big Elm since there are five first grade class now, but only 4 second grade and this is the same for third and fourth grade. I hope the newly elected members will address the current problems. I really do not know why I cannot get these answers.
Mr. DeMarco, you raise an excellent point. When you asked the question at the January 7th meeting at RCB, the answer from the school board only answered part of the question—yes, they will move some teachers (post positions?) for the number of students they take from Johnson and Simpson to fill the school at Charles Pointe. Yes, they will move (or post) the principal position and now that Johnson will have less than 500 students, there will no longer be an assistant principal at that school, but what about custodians, cooks, secretary, librarian, computer teacher, music teacher, special ed teacher, counselor. All these positions will have to figure into the state formula for personnel in the county. The result will be we will have more teachers and service personnel for the same number of students because they are in a separate building. And we will still have the majority of our students in 2 other school buildings in Bridgeport that need all kinds of improvements. Charles Pointe gains you nothing, but problems with your personnel formula, bussing issues, and another building to take care of and pay utilities for when we can’t take care of the ones we have! Oh, yeah, and the Charles Pointe fiasco also gains you another big reason most of the public has no confidence in the school board. This Charles Pointe deal is just about more money for people in high places and everyone knows it!
I’ll tell you how I think the HCBE wants to do it. They want to get the CP school up there, then they will show a bunch of statistics to prove it would be cheaper to bus our kids up there then to keep Simpson open and pay for the Simpson staff.
Then once again, we will lose another community school in this county.
“Simpson parent” you hit the nail on the head. That is why everyone needs to contact Dr. Manchin at the SBA and ask that they deny the funds to build the Charles Pointe school. We need to take care of the schools we have. If we significantly improve Simpson and Johnson then we increase capacity and address the problems that we have in these old buildings. It makes more sense to do that than add a third building and not address our issues with Johnson and Simpson and not improve the facilities for all our elementary age children in Bridgeport. That is why we have to have $$ in a bond to buy the rest of the property in the block around Simpson, build a new wing to replace the tower classrooms, replace the modulars and add more classrooms, add a gym, library, computer lab, etc. Tear down the tower and everything else except the newer wing. At Johnson we have to replace the modulars with permanent classrooms and add a gym and update that facility. This will provide a strong base for the future of elementary education in Bridgeport in the neighborhoods we have people living in now.
Mayor Demarco I hope you won’t buy into all that bull about Bridgeport being concerned about our junior high in Lumberport. Please tell me that you dont. So if these people are able to stop the new elementary school for Brigdeport do you really think the money from the HCBE will come to us here in Shinnson. No it will just go to improving the other two grade schools in Brigdpoert. The newsppaer said that the new school will get $6 million from the state PLUS $1 million will go to each Simpson and Johnson grade schools for upgrades to those schools. ANd what does Shinnston get? Nothing at all. So lets get Bridgeport out of the picture. They have the clout on the HCBE now and want us to elect another board membher from Bridgeport. They get everything now. I say the new school at Charles Point is fine. These people want to spend more and more on their town and nothing to Shinnston or Lumberport. The HCBE should now turn their attention to LMS and LES. Please mayor. Shinnston cant win against Bridgeport when it comes to the HCBE. Look at Mountaineer. Other schools get upgrades and we get nothing. When was the last time any shinnston school and I mean any of them got any upgrade. Anything at all. Years I tell you. Years. These people here are not saying to not build the CP school and then use the money in Shinnston. They still want the money to go to what they want in Bridgeport. And it will cost much more that a small 300 student school. They want a new school to hold 600 at simpson. That’s cost twice the amont to build. Just read what “Bridgeport Proud” wrote above. Those two schools there are in better shape than Lumberport grade school so why do we need to do anything for Brigdeport. IF they dont want the new CP school then the money should come to Lumberport grade school. Please keep fighting for Shinnston Sam. Its our turn sir. sam
Sam I am from Shinnston, You go ahead with your “Bridgeport hater” attitude, and I will continue to support a new Lumberport / Shinnston Middle School, because I have friends in Lumberport and Shinnston, but most of all because of the kids in those communities. I’m glad there are many more reasonable people in this county and less ignorant people like you.
SAM in SHINNSTON — the only thing his Honor the Mayor should do is ignore any of your suggestions and hope you really are not from Shinnston. Get on the “County team” bus.
Consider this…
In the failed bond from last July that included an elementary school at Charles Pointe, and SOME improvements to Simpson and Johnson, the total for Bridgeport elementary education was $13,580,000 and the plan was to reduce Simpson to 300 and Johnson to 450 and Charles Pointe would have 330 that equals capacity for 1080 in Bridgeport elementary schools. If you enlarge Simpson and Johnson for 600 each, you can have capacity for 1200 and the price tag, from what I hear, is more around $12,500,000. If that is true, this thing is a no brainer. More capacity, newer facilities for every kid in the Bridgeport elementary system and less money, and 1 million back into the county for use in another community. We have got to get the SBA to turn down the application for Charles Pointe.
wvurah,
you forgot to add Matt C’s point that it would also not require additional custodians, cooks, secretary, librarian, computer teacher, music teacher, special ed teacher, and a counselor
no brainer
sam I be,
the current HCBE PRESIDENT of the board is from Shinnston. how has that worked out for you?
I don’t think one individual can do it for any area, its county support that gets things done. wake up.
of course, I’m with everyone else on this blog, we know who sam I is really is. Always trying to stir up controversy.
How have any of the board members worked out for us? These guys just don’t get it. We the people/parents/tax payers need to stand up. These board members keep giving raises to the central office staff the past years while the teachers are being told there is not enough money at the state to give raises. The board does not hold our superintendent responsible for the lack of discipline through out our county or the fact we have a high school labeled as a “drop out factory”. The board has not managed our facility maintenance program to an acceptable level, as we have major improvements needed in most of the 25 schools, at least 5 of our elementary schools and 2 of our middle schools need REPLACED. So they address neither and apply for an SBA application for …….
.
The 1991 bond was managed so poorly. With cost over runs and projects not completed to satisfactory levels. This isn’t personnel, its business. In the real world (not working for a government agency), you get fired for being this incompetent. If you own your own business and do these things you are not in business very long. Our superintendent sees the writing on the wall.
So the question was, “How have any of these board members worked for you”?
So the question was, “How have any of these board members worked for you”?
they haven’t.
even the newest member caused so much controversy during the last bond call, that I blame him for it failing.
About ten days ago I said that I was only going to read and not respond to this blog……but I need your help.
Today’s Exponent-Telegram published an editorial supporting the selection of a new superintendent of schools BEFORE the two new school board members take office. If that happens, it will be an absolute abuse of power by the current school board.
I know many of you don’t care for me and I can live with that. For “Anonymous” to paint me with the same brush as the other four board members means that she hasn’t attended a recent school board meeting — and I can live with too.
But if we don’t come together to INSIST that the school board waits until the two new board members are elected — THEN WE REAP WHAT WE SOW!
The current school board suffers from a lack of confidence from the voters. Two ways we can help to restore some of that trust is by the county electing two new school board members AND by giving those two new members some say in who the next superintendent will be.
I would like to propose a compromise with the Exponent-Telegram that will (1) allow the new members to participate in the selection AND (2) address the time frame in which a new superintendent will start to work.
Here is a possible timeline:
March 1st – Advertisements for Applicants for a New Superintendent.
April 30th – Deadlne to Submit Applications
May 13th – Primary Election. Two New School Board Members are Elected to Replace Wilson Currey and Doug Gray.
May 20th – At the Regularly Scheduled School Board Meeting the Current School Board Members AND the Two Newly Elected Members Go Into an Executive Session to Discuss Applicants and to Establish a Timeline.
June 1 to 30 – Current Board AND Two Newly Elected Members Meet as Often as Needed to Discuss Top Candidates.
June 3 – Regular School Board Meeting. Current Board AND Two Newly Elected Members Go Into Executive Session to Discuss Applicants.
June 17th – Regular School Board Meeting. Current Board AND the Two Newly Elected Members Meet in Executive Session to Determine Which Top Candidates to Interview.
June 18th to July 1st – Interviews Take Place with Applicants AND the Current School Board Members AND the Two Newly Elected Members.
June 30th – Dr. Friebel Retires. The Current School Board Appoints an Interim Superintendent for up to 60 days.
July 1st – New Board Members Take Office.
July 3rd – New School Board (Cann, Reaser, Queen and the Two New Members) Votes to Approve a New Superintendent to take Office on September 1st.
Sept. 1st – First Day for New Superintendent
November 7th – School Bond Election
Right now, the school board is just beginning the most important responsibility we have — addressing the staffing needs for our schools. We are also in the process of preparing a budget for 2008-09 — and that is no easy task.
In addition, we are discussing what to do with another school bond for the November General Election.
The newspaper’s timeline will rush the current school board into the selection of a superintendent at our busiest time of the year.
I think that you (well most of you) will agree with me that the new members (1) need to participate in the process to select a new superintendent AND (2) should be part of the school board that actually votes to approve the new superintendent.
If you agree with me, PLEASE email, write or call the school board members PERSONALLY! Send a letter to the newspaper. Write a guest editorial or a letter to the editor. Send me an email (MichaelLQueen@aol.com) stating your position and I will share all of them with the other members of the school board.
Come to the school board meeting on this coming Tuesday night at 6pm to voice your concern.
Trust me when I tell you that some people (who may already have a new superintendent picked) will use the Exponent-Telegram’s editorial today as support to fast-track the search.
We have to work together to see that this does not happen. PLEASE do your part – and do it today.
Thanks,
Mike Queen
P.O. Box 907
Clarksburg, WV 26302-0907
624-5080
Mr. Queen – you are going to get a flood of replies on this one.
Immediate question – I guess point of order.
Can the Board have attend a NON- Board member to any Executive Session? Does that “privilege” have to be by Board majority vote or is it one(1) Board member requesting the attendee(in this case attendees) to attend the session? Naturally they are non-voting but still can be included in the privileged discussion.
Your calendar OBVIOUSLY does not include any time for the PROPER consideration of a November bond call. You have posted that no Board member has any current interest in working on a bond call.
How long a contract will the NEW superintendent get? 9.01.08 to ?
AND — have you a date set for your (our) meeting with SBA members? RE: Your offer !
It sounds a little to me that you are more interested in getting two(2) new members on the Board that will agree with your thinking. I am not at all disagreeing with you that the new members should have input with the selection process of the NEW super. Mr. Curry and Mr. Grey should insist that the NEW members be a part of the discussion.
Equally, the NEW super should be involved in developing the November bond call.
And, the SBA application should NOW be withdrawn.
To borrow a ( and edited) recent post -
“We have to work together to see that this does happen. PLEASE do your part – and do it today.” Quote MQ.
And since you came on the Board, you have been unceasingly critical of Dr. Friebel and the Central Office. Mr. Queen, some may even hold you partially responsible for the current state of the HCBE and the failures to respond to the taxpayers. That will do no good. All efforts and energies should be directed to gaining “unity” within this County. Perhaps, Mr. Queen, this is your sign to begin listening to the taxpayers and responding to their needs and wishes and NOT YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA. SUPPORT UNITY!
Dear Concerned,
First of all, let’s work together on those things on which we agree.
Right now, we agree that the the two new school board members need to be in place and consulted BEFORE we hire another superintendent.
Yes, a non-school board member can be appointed by the school board to a search committee for a new superintendent.
Right now and for the next six weeks or so, the school board needs to focus on our 2008-09 school system budget (about $103 million)…..which, in my opinion HAS TO INCLUDE serious attention on the staffing needs for classroom teachers
That should all be wraped up by May.
Yes, my timeline DOES allow time for public discussion of a new school bond. The “Greatest Needs Bond” was ready to take to the voters but it was postponed until November. There will be some changes to that bond call BUT we should wait until the new members take office to begin to “finalize” that bond.
In early July when the new board members are in place we can have that public meeting with SBA officials.
As for your accusation of me being “unceasingly critical” of the superintendent — I JUST CAN’T WIN WITH YOU BLOGGERS!
Some of you condemn me for “drinking the kool aid” and then others like you condemn me for being critical and making changes to a system that is very slow to adapt to change. Well, which is it?
YES! I am very interested in who the two new school board members will be — and you should be, too!
For now, let’s “unify” and work together to make sure that the two new board members (NO MATTER WHO THEY WILL BE) will have a vote in who the new superintendent will be.
Let’s agree to disagree on other issues…..for now.
I hope you are “Concerned” enough to attend the school board meeting on Tuesday.
Mike
Concerned,
Support unity? Do you mean status quo? Let Currey, Reaser, and Cann have their way and get the new Superintendent hired before the new Board members come on? I personally appreciate the fact that Mr. Queen is trying to keep the public informed and to give them the chance to have imput. I appreciate the fact that he realizes that choosing a new Superintendent is too important to be rushed. I appreciate the fact that he is willing to take your abuse to try and let as many people know who might be willing to get involved and stop another blunder!
Before he came on the Board, no one was going to meetings, because there was no use. Decisions were not being made in the open. Since agendas were not put out prior to meetings, it was hard to know what was going on. At least since he has been on the Board, folks are coming and speaking again from his encouragement. Perhaps, the other Board members and the Superintendent wish that wasn’t happening, because it was easier without public imput.
Mr. Queen was not on the Board when the blunders on Mountaineer Middle were made. He was not on the Board when huge pay raises were voted for certain county office administrators. Why are you attacking someone who tries to let you know what the Board is doing?
And how, Mr. Concerned, did you know that the meeting Tuesday is to be an Executive Session? Does that mean you are from the County Office? Are you telling me that we cannot speak at that meeting? Then, you are telling me that Currey, Cann, Reaser, and Gray are planning to push through motions without the public having imput again.
I will not support Unity, Mr. Concerned, if it means going along to get along as it sounds like you would like Mr. Queen to do.
One has to wonder why anyone would want to serve the public if they are to be attacked the way some have been doing on this blog! So now, I guess you will attack me since I dare to speak up too. Well, someone had to say something.
Mr. Queen is trying to get the Board to wait on hiring a Superintendent. I wouldn’t be surprised that the other four know who they want already. The schools are in total disrepair and the curriculum of the students is being mandated by those who do not care what the effect is. The county administration seems not to care because no one wants anyone to say anything.
One Board member can not make up for the lack of leadership that our school system has been enduring for a long time. But we do have a chance now to find a new leader that hopefully can lead instead of dictating to everyone.
So I too urge everyone to come to the Board meeting and urge the Board to go by the above timeline. Choosing a new Superintendent should not be rushed as the other four Board members and Mr. Friebel seem to have planned.
I checked the Board of Education web site. The Tuesday Board meeting appears to be planned for 3:00 PM, when teachers are still in school and most of the public is still at work. If that is an Executive meeting as stated by Concerned, then the four can discuss and vote on the Superintendent position without any chance of public imput. No doubt the way they and Friebel planned it. This is not right, but the way they like to do things. It is also the reason that things are in the shape they are in the school system.
There will be a “special meeting” starting at 3:00pm at the Kelly Miller Building. I originally thought that this was going to be an open work session.
There is also no meeting at 6:00pm as I had originally thought. Several of the meeting dates were changed at our last meeting and I had both on my calendar.
At a special meeting, the school board can vote on issues.
I’m sorry for the confusion. I hope many of you will still be able to attend at 3:00pm. At the very least, email me your thoughts on the selection process for a new superintendent and I will make copies for each board member.
My email address is: MichaelLQueen@aol.com
Thanks,
Mike
624-5080
For further clarification….the meeting is on TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 26th at 3:00pm.
Mike
NO SPIN ZONE – Attack you? Just a few corrections – it is obvious that you do not stop your own spin long enough to READ these posts. Such is but one source of the current problems within your County. Try reading my post again, I made no mention of Tuesday’s meeting. Did not even know when the meeting was – can not attend anyway so this blog is my only source of input – and apparent from Mr. Queen’s confused posts he was not even sure of his calendar.
ALL mention of pending Board meetings and “executive session” are by YOUR Mr. Queen. Since he never gets a second to ANY of his motions from ANY Board members, I was asking for his clarification on a procedural question. And because of his answer, I think it should be now either Mr. Currey and/or Mr. Gray that insists the NEW memebers be involved in the selection interviews and discussions — as well as perhaps OTHERS. I think both of these gentleman owe it to your County to support the inclusion of multiple opinions during the selection process. SPIN THAT.
As to YOUR Mr. Queen’s answer on the SBA meeting ( Mr. Queen’s offer to arrange this meeting in reply to another post) – in July? I believe this date is AFTER the SBA presentation and decision on the pending applicatiion for funding. Now that would certainly be helpful. SPIN THAT.
And the Board – by posts from Mr. Queen himself – did not prepare the “Greatest Needs” list. They have again done nothing in preparation of a bond call – nine months wasted. Not even presented a “draft” for review back to the “Greatest Needs” members….or more importantly the HC taxpayers for further comment. SPIN THAT.
And I think the New Superintendent should have input on the November Bond Call. After all, it will be his/her responsibility to get the taxpayers of Harrison County to accept the projects in the “call”, get the “bond” passed in November, and then implement the completion of the projects over the next 15 years. SPIN THAT.
And what about my question regarding the term of the contract? Do you really think a top notch superintendent will agree to moving his “life” to Harrison County for a short term (under 12 month) contract?
Mr. Queen has no doubt increased interest in the HCBE. I do not agree all of that effort has been positive. I just think he needs to not SPIN every issue without first listening to the wishes of the folks that put him there – the taxpayers of your County.
I trust all voters, parents, and educators will take a long hard look at what is before them with regard to Dr.
Fribel’s resignation, appointing a qualified, progressive
replacement, electing two new board members, , and
considering a school bond. It is crucial that each of us
look both ways before we cross into decisionmaking.
Our schools are vital to the future of the community.
We must, at all costs, use reasoning and sound judgement rather than be lured by a spinning board
member. His decisions change as the wind blows.
He is new on the scene, but wants to lead. Please make thoughtfull decisions–your own.
Again, please allow me apologize for the mix up on the meeting schedule for Tuesday.
At the school board meeting on February 5th, a work session was originally planned for 9am. I asked to move it to 3pm for one primary reason — to allow the Central Office staff to attend and to make it a little easier for the public to attend.
Although I have repeatedly asked for the top administrators or representatives from their offices to attend school board meetings, Dr. Friebel and the “majority” of the school board have refused those requests. At the last meeting we couldn’t even discuss the budget and our expenditures because no one from the Finance Office was told to be at the meeting.
IF FOR NO OTHER REASON….the two new school board members we elect should pledge to not have school board meetings before 6pm. In additon, they should pledge to support an effort to have the entire top administrative staff at each and every meeting.
Anyway, the meeting is at 3pm tomorrow. I hope some of you will still try to attend.
Dear Concerned,
Regarding a new contract for a superintendent…..I don’t know if the contract can be for more than a year. I have sent an email to the attorney to find out and I’m waiting for his response. I will get back to you as soon as I know.
I have stated before that I think a meeting with officials from the SBA would be very informative and helpful. Right now, the SBA is not taking applications for any funding requests.
There is current legislation before the legislature to expand the SBA granting authority to make it easier for school boards to apply for funds to “replace” aging school buildings. Right now, the SBA gives priority to those counties who are consolidating schools or have areas where residential growth can be demonstrated.
It seems to me that it would much more beneficial to have the meeting with the SBA after we know who the two new board members are. By that time, we will know what type of funding uidelines the SBA will have in place for the Fall funding cycle (the SBA usually awards grants in December).
I am concerned that waiting until a new superintendent is in place will be too late in the process. If we appoint a new superintendent in July, it will probably be at least four weeks to get him or her on the ground here in Harrison County.
The list of projects in the Greatest Needs Bond was developed by the Local School Improvement Councils with input from teachers, principals, custodians, parents and community leaders at each school.
Mike
As much as I like Mike personally, you can’t believe a word he says. The meeting with the SBA in July? Why not now as they are considering the application for the Charles Pointe School? You know why? Because he and the HCBOE really doesn’t want the public to speak with the SBA until they make a decision on that school. This is how Mike and the HCBOE really works. Same for the meeting at Mountaineer Middle when they forbid the public from speaking before the vote was taken on the SBA application for Charles Pointe. Quiet the opposition any way you can so you can get your agenda through..that is how they work. They probably have the new superintendent chosen already and are not telling anyone. Same ol’ song and dance for sure.
I am confused. Why does everyone think the two new board members HAVE TO BE PART of the selection process? Is it because people don’t trust the current Board or they feel that Mr. Curry and Mr. Gray don’t deserve to participate in the selection process. I for one believes the process should start now not later. There could possibly some good canidates available now and if they wait could loose out on a good opportunity. I don’t believe the current Board would be so stupid as to pick a superintnedent just to spit MR. Queen.
To me it appears Mr. Queen feels he has a greater chance of getting who he wants into place if the two new members will vote with him He’s words not mine. Just a thought.
Just like any other job, when an employee chooses to leave the employer starts looking now not after the employee leaves their position. Mr. Queens timeline looks reasonable, but to have to wait just so the two new members can vote does not make sense to me.
I agree. Why do you have to wait. Why not start now picking a new supt.? Wilson Currey has been in the schools for many many years as a principal and now as a board member for 12 years I think. Mr. Currey will have Shinnstons back and pick someone to help our area too. If we wait until the election Bridgeport may get another vote on the board and control the whole thing. Sounds liike Mike Queen wants to control it all. Susan Collins would be a great pick. She knows the schools and the teachers respect her. We dont need to wait for the election to know that we have a good replacement readie to take over. sam
With an already unpopular administration and a more unpopular school board, why would we as the people of Harrison County let them select our next superintendent? Friebel saw the handwriting on the wall and the current school board should as well. They have a track record of not listening to the public, most currently with the SBA application for Charles Pointe. People want these new board members to have a say in this very important matter. Why saddle the new superintendent with the backlash that will come from being selected by the current bunch. Do we need to give people another reason to vote “no” against the bond or the levy? I don’t know Susan Collins, but if she is the right person for the job, let her go through the selection process that gets voted on by the new School Board. The cream always rises to the top. Otherwise she or anyone else will wear the scarlet letter of this political push created by the timely resignation of our superintendent and the “created” emergency to replace him.
One simple question for Mrs. Collins and her supporters——Why sneak in the back door with a red face with you may very well walk in the front door with respect?
Much to my delight, I’ve recently discovered this site. Perhaps the internet will finally bring us a way to both discover and then disseminate the news we need to properly govern ourselves. My guess is that most of us are interested in providing an effective system of education for ALL of Harrison County.
Unfortunately, we harbor numerous factions with competing agendas. Mostly this involves the feathering of nests, but an also includes power politics, personal vendettas, nepotism, etc..
Up till now, it’s been very difficult to separate truth from fairy tails. The local newspaper flees from controversy involving political and powerful interests, largely because it’s not merely tied to the ruling power structure but actually an essential tool for the powers that be. My hope is that maybe this forum can help serve a function that our ” free” press so woefully fails.
Lets see if we can winnow out of this large crowd of school board candidates to find a few with absolutely no hidden agendas. My initial criterion would also include: first – an unshakeable opposition to a new school for Charles Point . Second. a desire to provide resources to ALL the county. Third, the intelligence, the integrity and the courage to stand up and fight against those who have been running things for their own benefit for far too long. I believe that If we can do this and get all the county behind a progressive slate, maybe we can make a little improvement. This effort should be the focus of this forum for the next few weeks.
I support Paul Howe for School Board as I know Paul very well and know that he believes in many of the things you(Stinger) enumerated above. Paul was born and lives in Clarksburg and is a family man with three young children. He along with a very small group of disenchanted voters worked together to get the information out against the last bond which Paul opposed as he felt it was bad for Harrison County. I support Paul and hope that everyone gives him a fair shot at becoming a member of the school board because his motives and heart are in the right place. Please give Paul as much support as possible. Thank you.
I have never felt so torn over a political board, more than this one. There are things I like about some of these board members and at times, issues that just down right turn my stomach against them.
For what it’s worth, the school board has always done what the school board has wanted. Right or wrong, they move forward with their agenda. Building Mountaineer Middle, while the two middle schools communities they closed did not want it, all the while Lumberport Middle again is neglected. Asking for an elementary school @ CP. Consolidating 7 elementary schools in Clarksburg and bussing them out to NutterFort to a 1200+ elementary school. The neglect of our existing schools… and the list goes on and on and on.
I don’t have one good thing to say about any of them. Not Sally CANN, not Jim Reaser, not Wilson Curry (and if he’s from Shinnston you people up there should be embarrassed of what he has NOT done for your community) and not Doug Gray (ditto for his efforts in Clarksburg). I will say this about Mike Queen; He may be misguided on the CP School (led by Jimmie Christie’s agenda) and he needed a little constitutional lesson on the separation of church and state. However, as someone above mentioned, Mike Queen is the only board member who is trying to change the school board for the better. Before Mike Queen was elected, we the people were not aware of the central office doings. Central office staff was getting raises while teachers patiently waited as the governor(s) said there is no money. Levy money wasted on central office employees while teachers struggle to afford the tools they need in our class rooms. Poor management of the last school bond construction led to many of the cost over runs and current deficiencies in our current schools.
Mr. Queen is not “my guy”, but if he and two new board members can change the way we approach education including the allocation of our money, then I am with him. What he has tried to state is there are changing ideas of how we can better educate our children. There are certainly better ways to spend our school dollars. And Mike Queen is right in saying that we need to let the two newly elected board members have an opinion in who will lead our county. Let’s face it. The board can hire an interim for a period of 60 days. So what if the next person they hire will only have a one year contract if they wait until after July 1. Maybe that is all the person will deserve.
Let’s look at the facts.
Friebel’s resignation comes in just before an election where two long time members will be replaced. Does he see that the people want change? Is this timed to help the long standing control of the board stay with the new superintendent?
If Doug Gray and Wilson Curry are not interested in their seat on the board, then what makes us think they are interested in hiring a superintendent that will work for the needed change to move our education system into the future?
How can we even talk about running a school bond in Nov.? It does not matter if we have a new superintendent or even 5 new board members. You know why? If the Central Office is not changed drastically then we tax payers are not supporting it. The next item that will take the hit will be the School Levy. And we will keep voting no until we get rid of the dead wait!
Curry and Gray are part of the problem. Yes they have every right to vote while they are serving on the board, but at what cost to us. Sally Cann and Jim Reaser say they don’t want a national search for a new superintendent. What is wrong with that idea? WAKE UP, these 4 members already know who they want. Friebel resigned in time to allow this to happen. “The fix is in” How many of you were at Tuesdays meeting and were not allowed to speak you minds? These guys are on a roll and will stop at nothing to separate you from your money, your kids, and your government.
What about the other elementary schools in the county that have not been kept up? Wilsonburg, Lost Creek, and Lumberport Elementary need serious updates, if not new schools entirely. This is where the foundation of learning begins right? So why do we see new gyms and turf on the horizon when that really has no bearing on the education a child receives? The people in Bridgeport probably need to have the 3 or 4 modular class rooms replaced at Simpson, but do we realize that Wilsonburg Elementary is a modular school in its entirety? And it is older than the modulars at Simpson. It would be nice to have a new football field at Liberty (I know we voted and paid for it in the 1991 bond) but should the children at Lumberport Elementary or Norwood have inadequate, out dated facilities? I hope some one with guts and integrity are elected to this board, because it is going to take real leadership to make these unpopular decisions. Or we can keep going down this same road as the above post mentioned.
When I get on the HC School Board I will do whatever I can to promote liberty and reason over force and faith. I will do whatever I can to stop arrests, kidnapping, indoctrination and theft involved in the “system”. Everyone in this country — even children — still have rights, all the time, everywhere. No bonds, no levies, and the school budget should be returned to its rightful owners — and we know who that it is. No truancy officers, no dogs or metal detectors,no sex ed or drivers ed, support (temporarily, if necessary) for only those classes that promote understanding and control of the physical universe, no limit to how much the parents can supplement the good teachers with their recovered taxes, and no requirement for certified/union vetted teachers. The freemarket can provide a more egalitarian and high quality education for children and I will encourage the teaching profession to do their job in a more satisfying manner by setting up private schools all over HC and hiring the best teachers and administrators for the business. As a member of the Board, my job will be — yeah, repeat after me — to promote liberty and reason over force and faith. There will be times when a vote — either aye or nay — will not further this aim and I will not participate. I am not omnipresent or omniscient vis a vis the goings on and mechanics of “the system” and the parents who share my values will have my ear. I will listen to such parents about their concerns regarding undue force and faith trampling liberty and reason and I will advocate necessary resolutions and vote accordingly.
We may all have different opinions about the “education system”, but all thoughtful people in 2008 should agree that it has completely lost its bearings and today no one should be forced to attend or pay for this morally and intellectually compromised behemoth
This Constitutional Republic and the unrecognizable tattered remnants of the family and the free market cannot survive much longer if we contnue to release illiterate ‘graduates’ mesmerized by, and beholden to, the welfare/warfare state.
Vote your conscience and your pocket book. Vote for me and let me deconstruct “the system”.
And, now I will take questions.
ffdsa
This is the first time I have read the blog. I was really taken back by the person who commented that 4 year olds were better taken care of at daycare centers rather than at a public pre-k program. I have a child at Simpson’s pre school program and I cannot say enough about Mrs. Pulice. It is a wonderful ,structured classroom -unlike my other child’s daycare program. My child has learned more this year than you can possibly imagine. She is starting to read, create stories, type on the computer etc. I am sorry but this is not what goes on at daycare. She has a certified teacher who is passionate about what she does. This makes all the difference!! You need to go and view what goes on in Mrs. Pulice’s classroom for one morning or afternoon to see how amazing it is and how those young minds relate to her! It is truly a gift to see! Another comment from a previous blogger also mentioned that 4 year olds didn’t need a pre- k program because–kids in the past didn’t have pre schools and they are just fine. That statement is from the dark ages. That is like saying “we didn’t have technology years ago–so why do we need it now?” I will tell you why we need technology and pre-schools in the world of today. We need to be working towards the goals of 21st century learning!!!!!
I loved the comments for stuck in the middle again. I am telling you–this person is dead on. I know many people in the county office. I almost feel like I should know this person. Of course the board knows who they want. This is another tactic by Carl Friebel to get the last laugh. He hates to lose and has made this comment to many people who have disagreed with him on issues behind closed doors. Trust me when I tell you–Susan Collins is who the board wants. The board knows that if the 2 new members elected side with Mr. Queen they will lose power. They will also lose the ability to give the job to Susan Collins. That is why Sally Caan made the motion to move forward quickly in the search. She will tell people that we won’t get the best candidate if we can’t offer them more than 1 year. She will tell you that a person will not uproot their family for a 1 year contract. That is not true–a new superintendent can be told of the situation and WILL understand. We need change and a new flavor on the board of education. I know Mr. Queen can’t sound harsh at times and should watch what he says. Give him a little credit–he is “OUR” voice. He is trying to do the job that he was elected to do. In my honest opinion–he is the only board member that should remain. The other board members are yes sir no sir people. They have agendas!!! He is trying to make a difference! Let’s help him out!! I know many people want change and talk about it but they are cowards when it comes to stepping to the plate. I feel like a coward as well. I wish I had a little more guts like he does.
“Stuck in the middle again,” I agree with you on so many points! But I just want to say that we have to think about passing a bond—-we have to for our kids! The buzz from Charleston is that our legislators will pass the bill enabling the SBA to sell bonds to generate about 100 million, but it will be distributed over 3 years with the bulk to be distributed in fiscal 2009. We need to pass a bond in November and go after that 1 for 2 match at the SBA. Big pot of money available in ‘09, let’s get our act together and get our county some! I know there are problems, like I said, I agree with much of what has been said about the board and the administration, but we will get 2 new school board members and we will get a new superintendent. We have to come back to the fact that we must work together to improve things in this county for our kids! PLEASE stay open to a bond and the levy! Thanks!
Simon,
While I disagree with some of the program changes you espouse, I totally agree with some of the social values you hold to.
No truancy officers? Have you not heard of the stories of children whose parents have kept them out of school for up to half of the school year? And the dogs and metal detectors are there for the safety and security of our children. It is a sad state of the way things are, but schools and colleges from Columbine to Virginia Tech wish they had followed these policies.
Of course we all support freedom of expression and the quest for information literacy for teachers and students alike. Your call for “liberty and reason over force and faith”, strikes a chord with me. The late squabble over the ‘Jesus picture’ at Bridgeport High School shows how good sense can abandon people when faith is allowed to become intertwined with the operation of our public schools.
I would say at this point you have earned half of one vote from me. I want to keep an eye on some other issues before committing the other one and a half.
Mike Queen,
Did I read the paper correctly? Did you say that you will not take part in the search for a new county superintendent because they came to another decision that didn’t turn out your way? That is a little like taking your ball and going home.
Parent – If you were to read any of the previous posts you would realize that you are in the minority, the very very small minority, when it comes to Mr. Queen. There appears to be a quite a few, or should I say a LOt, a whole lot, of reason Mr. Queen doesn’t receive support. The main reason it appears is that if you don’t see eye to eye with Mr. Queen, then he has NO use for you. Prime example is the search for a new superintendent. He was quoted in the paper that He now refuses to participate in the search because the board has chosen to move forward (i.e. He didn’t get his way.) That is exactly what an elected official should do to represent those who elected him, refuse to participate in the process.
As to your comment concerning Mrs. Cann’s motion to move forward, “She will tell you that a person will not uproot their family for a 1 year contract. That is not true–a new superintendent can be told of the situation and WILL understand.” You sound like a person who either has never had to look for and accept a job or you have always been a stay at home parent. Who in their right mind would move their family from out of state to accept a position, with a school board in such turmoil, and only receive a one year contract. If they did then I would have to question their motives. To me it would appear that they are desparate.
You make reference to Mr. Queen the only one trying to do his job he was elected to do.. What do you think the others were appointed. You forget that all the other Board members were elected and not just once, but multiple times. this is Mr. Queen’s firstgo around. Let’s see if he returns. Anyone who has continually voted 1-4 obviously doesn’t see the big picture.
Right onw this Board has been entrenched and is set on stuffing the new CP school and bond thorough and is currently missing the big picture. Things weren’t so BAD as Mr. Queen wants you to believe before that unitl Mr.Queen was elected adn decided to be a one man wrecking crew. It is a shame, because if Mr. Queen would the amount of energy he brings to the table in a positive manner, he could probably accomplish a lot, but for now it doesn’t appear that leopard is going to change his spots.
Yes, I did say that if the school board did not allow the two new school board members to participate in the evaluation process AND then allow them to vote on the new superintendent, then I would not participate in the process to replace Dr. Friebel.
I was the ONLY board member who came to the last night’s meeting with an idea — a plan — a proposal to involve the community, the current board members AND the new board members AND STILL have a new superintendent appointed on July 3rd.
My plan was in writing — making it easy to debate and discuss. I know why the others didn’t come prepared to the meeting — because the other four members had already discussed what they were going to do. They spent Thursday, Friday and Saturday in Charleston last week at a school board conference so they had plenty of time to talk.
We know now that they KNEW EXACTLY what they were going to do. THEY ALREADY HAVE SOMEONE PICKED OUT to replace Dr. Friebel. To make it easier they have to (1) shorten the time to accept applications; (2) limit the time and input from the community and (3) make sure that the current board members (not the new ones) vote on the new superintendent.
I know that the majority rules. I have lost lots of votes since getting elected on the school board – but I don’t stop trying.
What I witnessed at Tuesday night’s school board meeting was the absolute worst abuse of public authority that I have ever seen. Mrs. Cann’s proposal was to have a superintendent selected by May 1st – just 12 days before the new school board members were elected.
Despite his original public statement in the newspaper last week that he thought the new school board members should vote on the new superintendent — Doug Gray changed his mind and seconded Mrs. Cann’s proposal. Mr. Reaser accused the candidates for the school board of being out to get Carl Friebel and he sided with Mrs. Cann. And finally, Mr. Currey always sides with Mrs. Cann.
The previous blogger is right! If Mr. Currey and Mr. Gray didn’t care to run for re-election — why should we allow them to pick the new superintendent?
We shouldn’t!
Sally Cann has devised a scheme to pick a replacement for Dr. Friebel that is void of any reason. There was no mention of who would sit on a community search committee. She didn’t have a plan to seek professional support to lead the seach for a new superintendent. She wants to run the seach herself.
Oh yes, the last superintendent search committee that Sally Cann led was a fiasco! About eight years ago Mrs. Cann led the search that selected Mrs. Pamela Cain to replace Bob Kittle. Mrs. Cain, a longtime friend of Mrs. Cann’s, lasted less than 60 days before she resigned to “take a better offer in Charleston”. 60 days!!
Then, in a panic to get someone else, the school board picked Dr. Friebel.
So again, Sally Cann is dictating the seach AND selection for a new superintendent. Her track record is not a good one. Add to that her blantant attempt to manipulate the process and to keep the new members from participating.
She’s got the votes to do what she wants. I can’t stop her. She’s hell bent to do it her way and to get the person she wants before the new board members take office. She wants to give her new superintendent a THREE YEAR CONTRACT so that once the new board members are sworn in, they will be stuck for three years.
No, I will not participate in the CANN PLAN. It is void of any resemblace of fairness or reason. It is a desperate last-ditch attempt by Sally Cann to control the school system by selecting the superintendent — a person I believe she has already picked!
The selection of a new superintendent under Sally’s plan will do nothing to restore some confidence in the school board by the voters of Harrison County. In fact, it will just make things worse.
Why in the world would Sally Cann want anyone to become superintendent under a black cloud created for the sake of control?
No I will not participate. I already know how ithe CANN PLAN will turn out — and you all do, too.
Instead, I will focus my attention on the county’s classroom staffing needs, changes to our curriculum, the evaluation of our Federal programs and our 2008-09 budget.
Mike
Kids First?!?!?
Come on! You’ve got to be kidding. This “It’s for the Kids” line is all worn out. This is the standard B.S. usually spouted by those with ulterior motives wanting to fleece the public to lavish money in some wasteful educational project that puts some of that money right back into the promoter’s bank account.
It’s almost NEVER for the kids.
Tell me now, how much superior is the quality of education provided in the new Nutter Fort Grade School than in all the neighborhood schools it replaced? How about the New RCB (dropout factory) High School compared to the old RW and WI?
These bonds and buildings are for a lot of things, all related to $$$$$$$$$$ and largely not “for the kids”. It’s been my experience that those most vocal in wanting to spend tax dollars “for the kids ” are those who have the most to gain financially. I personally will never vote for another bond until the majority of the school board is responsive to the communities and the people of Harrison County. The levy is also at risk because the people are getting sick and tired of being ignored and abused.
Forget a bond in the near future. We have to “clean house”with our present system before we even think about a bond. If a new grade school goes in at Charles Point, I predict that the next levy will fail by a landslide. If we have money to waste on a new school “For The Kids” that don’t exist, then the Harrison County School System must have more money than brains.
hey mike you makka allotta sense. keep it up and don’t let em screw us.
Mr. Queen – If you are so frustrated, why continue. WHo do you think you are helping by being on the Board. It appears, by your own postings, that you have accomplished little or nothing at all.
From your last posting you have revealed your true selfish person. What do you think you are accomplishing by refusing to participate in the search. That’s exactly what the voters elected for you for huh. IF YOU DON’T GET YOUR WAY, TAKE YOUR BALL AND GO HOME. Well, sir from what you have just written, if it is true or not, you have shown your true colors. No wonder you cannot get a second on any of your motions, you are always right, whether anyone agrees with you or not, so why do you need anyone else.
If Mrs. Cann has an agenda, why not state what that is with facts, not just your SPECULATION. It is sad when a public elected official goee into a public areana, such as this BLOG, the radio, news print, or TV ad and bashes the very people he is supposed to be cooperating with. Then you wonder why they don’t want to even discuss your topic or ideas.
While you were spending your CRYING time degrading Mrs. Cann, you felled to mention what ALL the other Board Members have to gain. Mrs. Cann obviously can get the votes needed to progress with her ideas, while you cannot even get a second for your motion. Is this why you are really MAD, because no one thinkss you are right all the time, the way you think you are right all the time.
Mr. Queen from all the years of politivcal experience one would have thought you would have learned how to cooperate, compromise or other wise. It seems the years have not lent their knowledge to you or maybe they just didn’t think you are right as you thought you were.
What ever way you cut it sir if you cannot realize that you will continue to draw the short straw if you cannot get along wiht the others on the same team, maybe it is time to truly TAKE YOUR BALL AND GO HOME. Harrison Coounty deserves better.
Normlguy,
I don’t know exactly where you stand on the issue of metal detectors and dogs in the schools, but would you not agree that public schools are perfect petri dishes to examine the unintended social consequences of forcing citizens to go places to do things they don’t want to do ?
If “We, the adults” didn’t use daily FORCE against students to indoctrinate them with ‘FAITH in the system’, then one could REASON that we wouldn’t have angry and scared students bringing weapons to potentially use against others in a premeditated or defensive or impusive manner. Ditto for drugs — again, in large part, to cope with the same angry and scared feelings — you know, sort of akin to the other kids who get drugs prescribed by state licensed doctors and dished out by state employed school nurses.
LIBERTY always provides a good safe start and finish when it comes to education for citizens, but Leviathan will not tolerate dissent and it will use as many truancy officers and psychotropic medications to keep the system well fed and well oiled.
You people don’t get it!! Are you really that blind–it is clear that the board is being controlled by Sally Cann. I will only believe that Susan Collins will not be the next superintendent if she comes forward now and promises not to seek the position. It takes time to find the next best leader. We don’t “move forward quickly”. Look at the time we take to choose an appropriate candidate to run for the White House. If it is good enough to do it for our country, it should be good enough to do it for our COUNTY!!
STINGER: I am not a part of the system as you have indicated by trying to tie “It’s for the Kids” tagline to me. I can assure you that I do not have any educational project that will put money in my back pocket. I am a nobody, just an average person. I am TOTALLY against the Charles Pointe school for no kids, just $$$ for developer and mayor. What I am saying is it is time for the public to take back control of this county system and MAKE it about our kids! I can’t speak to the ‘91 bond and how it created the mega-school Nutter Fort or the dropout factory of RCB, I was barely out of high school myself at that time. But, I am in my 30s now with young children in the system and frankly, it is in a system is in shambles.
The public needs to get involved, go to the meetings and speak out (at the ones we are allowed to speak), and work toward a passable bond in this county. Do you know what it takes to run all these buildings in Harrison County, or to replace them with new ones—-money! And if we can’t put together a bond to provide some, I can assure you things are going to get worse before better. In today’s education system in West Virginia it is considered a luxury to have 5 high schools in a county with 11,000 students in your school system. It is considered to be a luxury to have a grade school with 164 kids that is 4 miles from the next one, or a grade school with 210 kids and another only 2 miles away. If we want to keep community schools, which I absolutely do, then we as the public have to make the commitment to pay for it.
What will be on a bond in the Fall must be decided by the public. Let’s make this school board and the new one in July listen to us. But please stay open to a bond. As I said in an earlier post, if we can pass a bond in November there should be a very good chance at getting matching funds from the SBA (1 for 2) because there should be much more money available in ‘09 than there has been, if this bill passes through the legislative session. We (the public and the school board) need to get on the same page and put in the work, time and effort, to come up with a bond that can pass. If we do not, I fear we will force the school board to go after SBA funds only and we all know a sure way to move to the top of the SBA project list is to close old inefficient schools and consolidate our students into new SBA ones. People can bitch around the water cooler at work, on this blog or at the grocery store, but we have to make our voices heard where it counts at the school board meetings. I know everyone is busy, but this is hugely important.
And Stinger, no I am not kidding! I will not forget about a bond in the near future because we need to be working on it now, we should have been working toward it since last year, but there is nothing we can do about that now. To some extent we are “cleaning house” we will have 2 new board members and we will have a new superintendent. I do agree with you that I fear for both the bond and the levy if the Charles Pointe school goes through because people in Bridgeport don’t want it and people from around the county do not want it. So we have to either convince this board to withdraw their application which will be considered by the SBA in March, or we, the citizens of Harrison County will need to contact the SBA to let them know that no one in this county wants this school. We need to let them know this is not like one of their consolidation projects when half are for and half are against—–the vast majority is against this school. Here is the contact information for the SBA, please contact Dr. Manchin today. I called. I was intimated to call, but I did it. I had to leave a message and I was totally surprised when Dr. Manchin called me back. I talked with him and he was very easy to speak to and seemed like he really wanted to hear from the public on this issue.
Executive Director: Dr. Mark A. Manchin
E-mail Address: mmanchin@wvsba.state.wv.us
2300 Kanawha Boulevard, East
Charleston, WV 25311-2306
Telephone: (304) 558-2541
Fax: (304) 558-2539
Mrs. Collins—- If it is not your intention to seek the position of Superintendent of Harrison County Schools by submitting your application for the post, will you please consider making a public statement regarding this matter?
Mike, disregard Outsider Lookin In’s comments. You will have two new members to move a new agenda forward. An agenda that puts children and tax payers above the central offices Whimsical approach to government. Out with the old cronies. Their time has come.
And I agree with Stuck in the Middle Again. You know, Mike you should be singing this song at every board meeting. “Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am, stuck in the middle with you” LOL
I can’t wait until the rest of em start handing in letters of resignation too. Those employees at the central office are a disgrace to the teaching profession.
Outsider Lookin In–
I have read the previous statements about Mr. Queen. Obviously–his supporters are not the ones using the blog. The people using the blog are only the people that are against him. I know he can sound harsh in his statements. You can’t help but be defensive and harsh trying to work with the existing board members. If I knew him I would like to tell him to try and hold back and be more constructive in his comments. I do think he has good points and is the first person in a long time–since Christine McCusky– to stand up for what he thinks is right. I don’t think it is all about him getting his way and then not having use for you if he does not get his way. He is really passionate about trying to better the county and communities. Please try and see this side of him.
You tried to guess who I must be to write such a message–well you have me all wrong. I am not a stay at home mom. I am a teacher in the county and have been for many, many years!! You also said it yourself–”school board in such turmoil” that is why we need change. We don’t need more of the same. My comments about Sally Cann’s motion were on target. I don’t think the person we get would be desperate if they were to take a 1 year contract. I think that would show us that the person was committed and willing to take a chance on bettering our community.
Actually things WERE that BAD. It took Mike Queen to show the people just how bad things really are. Mr. Queen is unable to use that energy you talk about in a positive way because the board won’t let him.
As for your comment about a leopard changing his spots. I would rather have a leopard on my side –than a bunch of PUSSYcats!!
Sam I am from Shinnston–Please don’t embarrass the rest of us with your jealous comments about Bridgeport. That story is old! I too am from Shinnston. We don’t fight hard enough down here. Look what we did when the bond came up for vote–we voted it down. What we should do is what Bridgeport does–”fight for our kids” instead of giving lip service. Some of my friends take their kids to Bridgeport because they do care and fight for their kids!
Another comment I forgot to make to Sam I Am–you say that Susan Collins will have our backs here in Shinnston??? Are you forgetting we weren’t good enough for her. She has built a million dollar home in Bridgeport. You need to get out more. She lives at Heritage Farm in Bridgeport.
Parent – that is where you and I differ – I do know Mike Queen. I have know him for close to thirty years. I point is not to bash Mr. Queen, and I don’t think I have, my point is that eery time Mr. Queen has been asked a question he becomes defensive and belly aches. He has been this way for along time. A longer time than he has been on the school board. My point is that even if Mr. Queen’s idea’s are good ones they are not going get heard because he has already pushed everyone away. If Mr. Queen REALLY wanted to do some good he would discuss, NOT ARGUE, his points. What kind of LEADER would walk away from a challenge. NONE that I know. What kind of LEADER would always think their point of veiw is correct ALL the time. Again, NONE that I know of.
I am not tkaing sides, my comment is that each of the Board members were elected, just like MR. Queen, but he continually forgets that. At least Mrs. Cann has the decencey not to reply to Mr. Queen’s comments on this BLOG. What kind of individual goes out in the public and bashes his or her fellow members just to get their name out there. It is not only childish, but far from helpful.
If Mr. Queen REALLY wanted to help he wouldn’t be going about it the way he is ormaybe he just doesn’t know any better. I think he knows better.
I am not trying to figure out who you are. To me that is not relevant. What is relevant is that you think someone would want to take a superintendents position for one year. Think about it – If someone were to be interveiwed from outside the are and would have to move their whole family here and get settled in and only have one year to accomplish anything. Very few, if any, professional with the qualifications needed would do such a thing. I understand now why you think that way, not because you are a teacher, but you have ont been out looking for or been involved in hiring people for such positions.
Again, if it is a game Mr. Queen needs to learn to play, then so be it,but as is it appears that Mr. Queen will continue to have 1-4 votes against him.
For any profesional to state that they would not participate in the selection process when they were hired to so is childish at best. Regardless if it is Mrs. Cann’s idea or not she is only one vote, just like MR> QUEEN, it just appears she is not the only one that feels that way, otherwise the others wouldn’t have voted in the affirmative on her motion. For Mr. Queen to make a public spectacle of himself and try and belittle Mrs. Cann to improve his public image is kind of backwards.
From the days Mr. Queen was in the legislature he operated the same way. Some things never change. So if the citizens of Harrison County REALLY want to change things it appears that will have to come with the next school baord election not this one.
To think that you beileve that only the ones that don’t like Mr. Queen use this BLOG is kind of funny. It sounds like something Mr. Queen would say.
It’s a done deal for the new Superintendent!! Dictator, Sally Cann and her three minions have selected Susan Collins, you just don’t know it yet!!!!!!!!!! Mark it down!!!!!!! Remember, you heard it here, from me!!!!!!
When??????????????
Where?????????????
Who??????????????
Outsider looking In: Well said my friend. Mike needs to get a wife…I mean life. As for your Sally gram………
she dosen’t know how to BLOG.
Exactly–Maria P–Sally Cann probably doesn’t know how to blog or what the word means. What does that tell you?????–SHE’S BEHIND THE TIMES–move aside already!!!!!!!!
Susan Collins has worked with Harrrison County schools for years she has obtained numerous grants to assist in providing the best education available to all county students. Ms Collins personal life has nothing to do with what she has done and still does for all Harrison County students. Unlike most of us, she doesnt have an eight to five work day. Susan attends weekly meetings and time working with other board member and teachers developing programs to give our students the chance to be the best of the best. It’s time to stop this petty jealousy and give her the support she needs to continue providing the best education the students in this state can get.
I don’t think anyone is questioning about if Susan Collins is a hard worker. I think people just don’t want to see the ‘old board’ put her in place without jumping through the same hoops as everyone else and letting the ‘new board’ decide who the best person for the job is. Maybe it will be her? I don’t think there is any jealousy from the average person. People just want things conducted in an open and fair way. There are always a few that go to extremes, but I think the most people just want the process to be fair.
OK.
Whew.
I’ve packed away the macaroni, swept the phone for bugs, checked out the gun for the umpteenth time and counted the gold and palladium.
The only other thing to do is ask: does anyone know what they want a new schoolboard member to do when elected.
Remember now. I am a simple man. I am not omnipresent or omniscient. I can’t be everywhere in “the system” or know everything about how “the system” works, but I guess that’s what lawyers and policy books ..and…concerned parents in the community are for. I am a pretty damn good multitasker: I can be both a lumper and a splitter. I always like to think of steering away from force, fraud and fantasy, all the while promoting liberty and reason. Life is too precious and fickle to do otherwise. Hopefully you think as much about your children. They need to know you care and are vigilant and courageous. So how do we free up their minds and bodies and hands and hearts before they join the ranks of “We, the adults” with all the trappings of duty and privilege. We only get one chance with our kids, and they will either respect or condemn us based on what we do.
Anyone? Anyone?
Oh, yeah.
Grandparents out there are welcome to chime in.
Simon, Here is what I would like to see happen. There are several schools in the system where discipline is a joke. You have two middle schools where the inmates run the asylum. I would like to see the board take a hard look at these schools and do what is right to return these schools to the faculty,staff ,and students who place a premium on learning. These two schools are hard to teach in and harder to learn in. This is the nuts and bolts of what a school board should do; advance learning. Maybe the administration of these schools need to be shaken up,or given the direction they need to enforce discipline. The Alternative learning Center is a good option for extreme cases, but for the kids who just want to disrupt classes and cause chaos, they will continue to do so until the administration of these schools sets the tone for acceptable behavior. I think some administrators may be in over their heads.
Just out of curiousity.
What happens when kids are disruptive at the ALC ? How many iterations are there?
What happens if the state does not have a teaching paradigm that the kid can subscribe to, without endangering or distracting the other students. A restaurant would chuck ‘em out — and so would a private school. Not that I am inclined to lean on statistics, but, should the onus not be on the state school supporters and cheerleaders to show that reintegration of these pseudo-students’ actually makes a positive difference, in terms of future productivity, crime, etc. If the ENTIRE cost/benefit analysis ( including the safety and education of the other civilized children) cannot be shown to favor further sacrifice by the community, then they should be cut loose. But, my contention is that the pseudostudents, back home with their families, would be better off, as well.
So, how does all this jibe with the notion that every kid deserves a free and efficient educatrion, as per the state constitution? Simply put : how much truly expensive and truly ineffective schooling and babysitting are we on the hook for ? And how do we avoid the hook. What if HCBOE just simply just refused to go along with this crazy game? How do we get away from this?
Anyone?Anyone?
OK, we’ve got the policy wonks, state apologists and civil rights lawyers working on the above technical matter.
But, can we — and I”ll use this to indicate the HCBOE–shake carrots and sticks at the guards and wardens running the day to day operations?
At another level, can the community get together and monitor and reward the principal for improving safety and sanity in their local school. Granted, “the system” has already taken their pound of flesh from the taxpayers, but the extra cost on the margin might make the difference to the “environment”. Maybe , we should just pay the kids to behave !!
Now, there’s an idea : direct the ALC budget towards the whole chain gang –students, guards and warden — for good behavior in the school, but there are further iterations in this direction as well.
Or, just pay the parents to keep ‘em at home. Joking, just joking.
Or incentive pay for guards and principal if they show reductions in ALC referrals, or some variation on this theme perhaps.
Hey Simon,
Seems a lot of people just can’t relate to or understand your message. Or if they do understand, they’re probably thinking you’re ideas are…what….let’s say for the sake of polite conversation–somewhat less than conventional.
I was present at the candidates event yesterday, and was happy to hear all of you voice your concerns and objectives. It’s nice to realize that there are so many running who would be excellent representatives of the people of Harrison County on the School Board. As one of the few who have home schooled my children to the point where they wanted and asked to attend school, I certainly do agree with what you are preaching about “force, fraud and fantasy”.
It’s both a shame and a blessing that most of our fellow citizens haven’t yet been through the experiences that would open them to your message.
A blessing because the first hand hardships and misfortunes that typically awaken a person to your perspective are the sorts of things one wouldn’t wish on a dog, and a shame because the fact that so many remain so blissfully unaware means that constructive solutions remain at best, a far distant, and quite unlikely, mere glimmer of hope.
The probability of making changes of the sort you envision anytime in the next decade is essentially Zero. The best we can hope for in a new school board is to find members who will TRY to minimize fraud, nepotism, neglect, disdain, arrogance, and indifference within the bounds and limits of the present system. Changing the system is for practical purposes impossible. Making it work as well as it can, is the task before us. Expending great effort for incremental improvement may be a waste of our time, but there are 13 of you fighting for that opportunity.
On a personal note, I learned Saturday that you have the good fortune of being married to one of the most caring, kind and compassionate people I’ve ever met. I owe her a big hug or at least a big pat on the back and I intent to deliver one or the other the next time I see her. Hope you won’t take offense.
One of the best measures of a person is how they deal with unfortunate souls who can offer absolutely nothing in return for services way above the call of duty. In this regard, your Dr. Menzel is tops. I’m sure I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know.
Just what the heck is keeping the disruptive and dangerous kids in the system.
Has it got something to do with a federal mandate wherin they count heads in the desk and number of “graduates” at the time their sentence is completed? Well, without a doubt , this kind of policy has resulted in guards and wardens cooking the books and butchering the numbers in other states. It would be cheaper and less dangerous and less distracting — and encourage honesty in the students –for all then if we cut loose from the arbitrary and poorly funded mandates in HC. Big deal; so we have a few more empty desks in the class. No one remaining in the class will know — or, even care for that matter — since they will be attending to the task at hand. And that brings up another matter:
Should we not just focus on math and English and sciences, and just let kids and their parents back home in their neighborhoods figure out the art and dance and gymn and music lessons, along with other interests like driving and drug prevention. All these “subjects” could be “taught” — or, more properly, “learned” — in so many other ways in the community-at-large simply in the course of daily affairs with family and friends and tutors.
For many, many reasons, I vote “yes”.
Well this is what you get when you think without a state license — going faster than the speed limit, always crossing over those pretty white and yellow lines, right past the bright red signs with seven — No! — nine sides. But what thinketh you? Can the HC schools get back to the business of ‘teaching’ (if we ever had it in the first place) as opposed to simply playing or experiencing or imagining? Should the schools — if they are to do anything — not prepare our children to be productive thinkers, able to confront reality, confident that the physical universe is knowable and controllable? Anything else is not their domain, and should be managed in other venues and fashions. These other matters ultimately come down to values and choices, are they not? — and must be wrenched away from the state in my opinion.
Anyone ? Anyone?
Stinger,
I think one develops a taste for liberty at birth ( a congenital affliction of the best kind ), serendipitously grabbing it or having it foisted on you through fortune or fate in a scillintillating and unmistaken fashion, or indirectly — and purposively — discerning it using one’s power of reason.
The fourth potential means — teaching it !! — well, all I can say is that we should all be happy that the state schools haven’t settled on ‘ liberty’ as a required course. Yet.
Simon-
Some of the Federal Regs are keeping the disruptive kids
in the system…..you might want to check out the
Individual with Disabilities Act (IDEA), which while it is a
wonderful measure (dating back to 1976) for ensuring the
education for all children, it also has some guidelines for
dealing with disruptive students who also have disabilities
and who end up at the ALC. I am sure you are aware of
this, so I apologize if I am “preaching to the choir”-so to
speak. If I recall correctly, if the disruptive behavior is a
manifestation of the the disability, then the child can not
be held to the same standards as non-disabled students…..
also I think, keeping these students ‘on the books’ would
assist in federal funding…I have been out of the education
loop for some time, but that is what I remember…..
re getting the schools back to teaching ideas-:
smaller schools, smaller teacher student-ratios (1-12 max),
parent involvement, less reliance on standardized tests,
teachers
who are learners and are enthusiastic about their content
and are free to experiment with pedagogy.
Learning for the sake of learning, or knowledge for the sake of knowledge is not valued very much in our society very much anymore. I can’t count the number of times I have read in
the past
months or so of how the American public is getting dumber
and proud of it-mostly in response to Susan Jacoby and
her book“The Age of American Unreason”
Good luck with your campaign. There are so many
interesting candidates for the Board.
Peace, Sohphia
Stinger,
If you were present at the meet the candidates event on Saturday, then how did it go?
How many of them showed up?
Who did you like?
and When is the next one?
Will we see public outcry at the board meeting on Thursday to include the newly elected board members in the superintendent hiring process?
I have a feeling we just might
Pax Sophia,
It is an interesting turn of the screw to always be looking for a “disability” when a kid is distracting or dangerous in class. And, if we look really, really, really hard — Voila ! — you find it. Especially when we have diagnosis inflation promoted by special interest groups (much like money inflation and loose credit promoted by the Fed).
Why can we not just ascribe it for the most part to a choice of behavior; albeit, in a place where the kids are forced to go, to do things they don’t want to do? Why do we have to medicalize it ? No one thought to foist a diagnosis on Junior at home or out in the field or in the workshop or even at nigtht when Mom or Dad read to him before bed. And Mom and Pop had no problem getting Junior to follow directions. We didn’t hear crap like : “35% of kids don’t or can’ t or will not behave at home and thus need drugs — prescribed, mind you. Prescribed! The prescribed kind !”.
Well, pardon me, but if the kid doesn’t want to learn, then for goodness sakes keep him or her at home. And if he can’t learn like other kids, what is the point or what is to be gained over the long haul if he stays just to be marked present. What is the point of twelve years of ALC (administrative segregation) or special education. Something is fishy — and immoral — for if they are to provide some brief means to transition or adjust to the learning process, why are the kids invariably still in these correctional /crayon programs years down the road ? (My contention is that schools perpetrate fraud when they make SUCH promises they can’t keep, but its been going on so long it looks OK — they are ‘trying’, and it brings in the funds. GREAT.) But then I think we can understand why some parents would want the little rascals out of the home and why unions would want them out of the factory and why neighborhoods would want them off the streets. But it is still not right. There are other ways to deal with mischief makers’ behavior,and there are many ways to deal with the matter of a mischief makers’ education, without putting them in the tender mercies — and velvet claw — of the state.
Would we not all be better off if schools were places where INTERESTED kids went voluntarily who could MAKE USE of a meaningful education provided in a safe and sane environment . For the most part, private schools are not going to accept –or keep very long — kids who are distracted or dangerous or disintersted , and parents are not going to pay for twelve years of schooling (or desking) if there is nothing to be truly gained.
But aside from the moral arguments against forcing this arrangement on these “special ” kids ( to sit in lockdown or in the corner with crayons everyday ), do the policy wonks and wardens have evidence that their schemes work ?.
I would think that a concerned parent would not want their special child to go anywhere near a public school. It is clear that, over decades and across generations, while the public school system is becoming ever more forceful and insistent about “education”, the other “normal”, or “nonspecial”, students are becoming less literate, less proficient with math, less confident with the physical sciences and more stressed out dealing with the dangers and distractions. Concerned parents of “special” kids also see and hear about these lousy results — as well as the weapons and drugs confiscated by cops with guns and dogs — and , of course, they should wonder if their odds are going to even worse if they put their childs mind and body in harms way as well.
Should we in HC not just extricate ourselves from all this immoral and dangerous and expensive and frustrating and counterproductive insanity and just tell them that we are not going to play the game any longer. I think it would be proper to ask ‘them’ to remove their special program funds (of different stripes and shades) from Harrison County, along with the diagnostic tests, specialists, medications and all the other accoutrements/paraphernalia behind this dog and pony show.
If there is a demand for the smoke and mirrors in the free market, well, so be it. Caveat Emptor.
So, what sayest you, HC ?
Anyone ? Anyone ?
a
Who are the outstanding superintendents in the state of West Virginia currently? Who has passed a bond recently? Who has successfully managed new construction? Who is leading the state in numbers game? Who graduates the largest percentage?
Who should we go after? Anyone got any info?
Simon!
If your writings are any sign of the rambligs you would bring to the Board if elected, I think I would rather keep the existing Board.
Please try and keep your essays under 500 words…you are killing us.
500 words?
Only 500 words ?
But then I suspect they’ve never had to worry about your vote — at anytime.
Simon: If you, by your writings, are making it known that you are NOT electable, consider yourself a HUGH
success. Now stop your verbage and afford all of us
a break. What are you trying to accomplish?
First, I’m looking for attention to my ideas — thank you, Maria.
Secondly, Maria, I want to change your mind and get your vote.
Thirdly, my writings are not going to make me unelectable, but this kind of anemic criticism from you, Maria, might inadvertently put me over the top.
Simon:
I agree with many your points regarding over-diagnosing of
disability-there really isn’t much allowance for individuality in the public schools and the large class size requires that the emphasis is on maintaining order not on creative teaching and learning-the nature of disruptiveness is subjective to individual teacher’s tolerance for disruption (or the principal’s)
Data indicates that some of the difficulties you describe can be reduced by reducing class size. Many longitudinal studies during the 70s-90s examined the relationship between class size and learning/behavior:
Generally the findings supported:
time is required to manage the class or to deal with discipline problems is less-thus
more time is spent on instruction and active teaching
instruction is individualized and spent in diagnosing student needs, providing help and in monitoring progress-without exclusion from the classroom
students show increases in on-task and active-learning behaviors -student involvement time (if kids are involved in active learning behavior-they can’t be involved in active disruptive behavior)
academic achievement tends to be higher-although this decreases (but is still higher) as the student(s) progress through to the upper grades;
As I recall, I think most of these studies concerned k-8. I’d be interested in seeing if the same effects occur in 9-12. I would love for some creative initiative that would establish a small experimental high school in one of these empty buildings in
Clarksburg-one that would have small classes, that would incorporate some of the findings of the teacher effectiveness research and exploratory learning/teaching-one that has a multi-ability student population.
Even small neighbor hood schools and smaller class size are not going to be the solution for all student difficulties. These kids are coming to school with a whole load of baggage that we didn’t carry during the 50’s, 60’s & 70’s and we just can’t tell them to stay home. For many of these kids (whether their behavior indicates it or not) school is a refuge.
I guess we just need to create learning environments that somehow are stronger than the popular culture/home and don’t feel like a jail. Its a hard task. What are your ideas for this Simon?
And Simon-you really do need to be more succinct. List your ideas for change please-without commentary. No more than 6 please. Thanks-
Peace, Sophia
Pax sophia,
Succinctly put, I would encourage removal of all force, fraud and fantasy from the schools and:
(1)Stop forcing attendance.
(2)Stop forcing people to pay for the schools through bonds and levies, and return any budget to the rightful owners.
(3)Stop promotion of fanciful and fantastic courses, which rest on individual and family values and choices and which which do not promote attention to the understanding and control and communication of matters pertaining to the physical universe and the future empowerment of the sovereign rational individual later in life at home, in politics and and in the free market.
(4)stop forcing community from hiring nonunion and noncertified teachers.
(5)Stop the fraud resulting from mandates coming from outside HC, which force teachers away from effective teaching and twist professional values
(6)Stop forcing kids to give up their rights, and instruct employees to treat attending kids like customers as do other businesses.
There is still a smidgen of force, fraud and fantasy left to deal with, but these six ideas are a start. But enough said — succinctly — for now.
Anonymous too, and anyone else interested,
I’ll try to answer your questions about the candidates meeting Saturday.
Of the 13 running, all but 2- Howard Bailey and Louis Iquinto made an appearance. The 11 present all took a couple minutes to introduce themselves and then responded to questions. The event was well moderated and moved along quickly, with mostly prompt and direct answers.
Most of the candidates seemed familiar with the issues facing our school system. This is to be expected given that about half have worked in the system,and have excellent, intimate first hand knowledge of the problems- Brown, Lachapelle, Fain and Miles- all retired teachers and Reider ,retired maintance supervisor.
A couple of the others-Prichard and Howe- have family members working in/ and or retired from the Harrison County Schools and well know what’s going on. Vincent seems to have done lots of homework and has a fairly good grasp of issues. Dolan is Fain’s neice and while somewhat less familiar with some of the details discussed, is bright and otherwise knowledgeable. Dick Laughlin seemed a bit less up on some of the details, however, he has wide connections with lots of people including many who have worked in the system. Our Simon McClure seems to be a candidate who has given tremendous thought to the philosophical issues but not to the more mundane details.
In my view we have an abundance of very good candidates I would be glad to support.
I was surprised that the vast majority of answers by the majority of candidates jive with my views on the issues. One issue upon which each and every candidate agreed is opposition to a new school at Charles Point. Every one of them promised that if elected he(or she) would do everything possible to stop this outrage.
All seemed genuinely committed to a new era of openness and responsiveness to the citizens of Harrison County. All seemed committed to neighborhood schools and to a quality education for our children. If there is a plant among them who is actually a hidden yes man for the present power structure, I couldn’t flush him out.
There were no fireworks, and really not much heated disagreement. A few of the candidates favored a big increase in control and security and a few seemed to value cooperation and working smoothly with the rest of the board (Hoping to minimize confrontation and discord.) There was some disagreement about prioritizing cultural offerings given scarce resources.
My personal concern is that with with all these good candidates, with very similar values, philosophies and agendas running against each other I’m very seriously afraid all the best candidates will cancel each other out and we’ll end up electing at least one -maybe two yes men for current system or perhaps two well meaning but weak reformers.
WE absolutely must elect TWO good strong reform minded candidates or we have LOST. I ask that the reform candidates get together and cut their numbers to two- by discussion, by ballot or by drawing straws. Among yourselves pick the two candidates you feel can best turn this school system in the right direction.
At the least you could whittle your numbers to 5 and then draw straws. The two winners will get the others support (And the County’s support this election with the understanding by all that the next election the reform support will go to the three who for the greater good have stepped aside.
Please, one of you take the initiative in this. Invite all the candidates to a candidates meeting and hash this out. Do it any way you want, but we desperately need TWO strong reform minded people the rest of us can all get behind.
Thanks Simon: (Bless your little pea pick’en libertarian
heart)
Would you please elaborate on item 2?
Also item 5-since some of school funding is via fed
mandates. Oh yes, and where does the SBA fit into your
schema regarding funding?
Succinctly Simon.
Peace, Sophia
Stinger,
Thank you for the review of the forum. Very informative.
I have met Lachapelle, Miles, Vincent, Howe, and Reider. I have yet had a chance to meet the others, but look forward to the next forum. I am planning on voting for two of those that I’ve already met, and will need convinced by another candidate to do otherwise, but I’m open.
I understand your point on narrowing down the candidates or them doing it themselves, but at this point names cannot be taken off the ballot so I am not sure it would help much to do so.
First, can you Sophia or anyone tell me why we should continue “the system” ?
Simon,
I’m just a nobody, but I will admit you sometimes make some good points but seldom make sense.
some of these same kids that you are saying to leave at home by removing the ‘force’ part of the equation are the same kids who don’t have much of a home, they are the same kids who may only eat while they are at school, the same kids who only get an introduction to social skills while they are at school, the same kids need “the system” worse than we can ever imagine.
Probably the strongest — or one of the strongest –arguments I have that “the school system” doesn’t work to produce results is the fact that “We, the graduates of the system” still think it works, that “We” still pour money into it, that “We” still instinctively feed our children to it everyday, that “We” still think it is better than the alternative, that “We” still trust new faces at the helm will steer the ship away from the shoals, that “We” think it can only get better with reform,etc.
“The system” still exists!! “We” let it. “We” were trained to let it .
Have “We, the graduates of the system”, been imbued by the state with critical thinking !!
Doesn’t look like it .
Well, they’re selling the same old tired bill of goods to our children. What do we want to tell our children when the next pack of lies rears its ugly head? That “We” were ignorant ? Nope, that won’t work, and so the stark question and alternatives remains : Do “We, the graduates of the system”" want our children to respect us or condemn us?
To a nobody,
Which is the horse and which is the cart?
(1)Leaving aside the fact that so many, many other schemes of force, fraud and fantasy foisted by “The State, Limited Liabilty Corp.” over the past 80 years have eroded the nuclear family, it is my contention that kids don’t have “much of a home” because the state has taken over so much of the responsibilty. I am surprised families even bother buying clothes or food or bedding. I mean, let’s face it, the gymnasium is not presently used between 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. They could use the school buses to bring parents from home and visit the next generation of bureaucrats, soldiers and military aircraft assembly workers. It would cut down on traffic on Johnson Avenue….Uh…wait..
[Memo to self : stop the Swiftian tack -- someone out there might take the idea to the HCBOE]
(2)Well, I guess if the state grub is free, why would you want or need to fill the cupboards. Question : should we share the state grub with the visiting parents getting off the bus. No way, let them eat cake!
(3)The first social skill taught on Day 1 is “the use of force by the state is OK”. Next, the kids learn that fraud and fantasy can be use in their social skills quiver.If your kid is not up to the idea of socializing with psychopathic, threatening, intoxicated , disruptive or disinterested kids, well that’s just that’s just too. Talk to the hand — or to the truancy officer or to the drug dealer. “Somehow we’ll all get through this ’socializing’ thing over the next twelve years.[Swell, just swell]
(4)Simply put, “the system” needs our precious kids far more than our kids need “the system” — otherwise what’s the need for the force. Why don’t they make it voluntary and try to persuade parents to cough up their kids every day. Without force no parent would have anything to do with the fraud and fantasy perpetuated by “the system”.
Now raise your head and look after your children and grandchildren — you have been promoted to a somebody now. They are watching and listening and waiting.
RE. Why we should continue the system?
Well, I am not sure we should continue THE system in it’s present form-I agree with many, many of your points— but I think we should continue A system. Obviously, you do as well Simon-your voluntary students will be participating in A system of some sort. A system that you have spent many hours envisioning. Please elaborate how this system would be funded if: We
(1)Stop forcing people to pay for the schools through bonds and levies, and return any budget to the rightful owners and
(5)Stop the fraud resulting from mandates coming from outside HC, which force teachers away from effective teaching and twist professional values……and the monies associated with these mandates (my addition)
You are running for the school board, not I. So it is your ideas
not mine, that need to be explained and discussed. I would like to support your candidacy.
Peace, Sophia
Ave Sophia,
Thank you for your continued interest.
Not to put too fine a point on it , or sound pedantic, but I am not envisioning any system at all.
Imagine that we had absolutely NO government regulation, management or financing of education of any sort. Nothing forced, nothing free. Similar to other — as yet fairly unmolested — important matters like food and feeding and body weight choices. We have all kinds of great, potential choices to make here.
To set the stage for discussion about education, let’s look at the NONSYSTEM that deals with food and feeding and body weight. We can grow our own — any kind and amount –in our backyards; we can buy food at the grocery store and come home and cook it immediately, refridgerate it or freeze it. We can snack at home, at work, in the car. We can sit in restaurants, do the drive through thing, or have the pizza delivered. We can eat in ethnic restaurants and box up the leftovers — and , no, if the food is really good it shouldn’t go in a doggie bag. We can decide that we like meat more than veggies, or vice versa. We can tell the waiter to speed up the service, or linger over dessert. We can eat at the counter crammed in with the truck drivers or make reservations 24 hours in advance at the 5 star. We can try to put on weight, or lose weight. We can decide to eat a whole lot at one time, or, and this is very important :
We can decide to change our mind any time (barring contractual obligations) and even stop eating when other people are eating all around us. For any good reason , any bad reason, or no reason at all.
Wow! Gulp! Belch!
We are not all sent to a government feeding room three times a day, for authorized feedings under the auspices of state employees. That would be a Feeding System
“We, the graduates of the system” come from a fine pedigree when “We, the courageous and sovereign” insisted that government stay out of such matters. “We, the graduates of the system” can do it again — with the same spectacular results. But, again, not to be pedantic, there was no “system”. We had the most educated, curious, grounded, literate people in the world. Ask Toqueville or Du Pont. Check out the various course programs, textbooks, tests, spelling bees, and college entry exams from that era which antedated defacto education monopolization — “the system” — by the state.
So, let’s start again.
Let us,”We’ the graduates”, disabuse ourselves of all the fearmongering and twisted statistics and thoughtless customary spending habits pushed on us by the state. And , for goodness sakes, disabuse ourselves of any planned ’system’ — as much as present stautes, laws, regulations will permit the local county schoolboard.
I already have rid myself of the need for a system and all its chaotic, immoral consequences, and you can as well. I don’t think it takes 103 million dollars county wide– or TEN THOUSAND dollars per child/annum — to provide great education. That’s the cost of running “the system”. Let’s have parents and grandparents keep their money and start putting it toward free market solutions with supplements by charity.
[As an aside, we already have 'charity' education when nonpaying people get "free" education. So if the state can be compassionate then certainly you, Sophia, and other similar minded people (and good people make up the majority) can be charitable. But, teachers also routinely receive charity when their unions force money from school boards above and beyond the going rate in the community's free market. Philanthropists, churches and community groups have always done it in the past. So, my plan definitely requires charitable people, like you Sophia. You will make my plan work. ]
The HCBOE should do its part to promote education — not desking or schooling or checking attendance or enhancing systems– but by shutting down its present system as quickly as possible in conjunction with logical fiscal and operational restrictions ( cancelling many courses and extracurricular activities such as phys ed and drivers ed and parentchild development, laying off teachers, shutting down the buses) and returning the unused budget to the community in a prorated fashion. We should try to taking into account contractual obligations as much as possible, but it may even be logically expedient to suffer contractual penalties to hasten the demise of the “system” and pay off the parasites once and then move on. These details will be left to the lawyers and the accountants. I know what IDEALLY needs to be done , they will tell me how to do as much as possible. Remember, if “We, the graduates of the system” can unthnkingly pay all these progressive and arbitrary taxes, then we should be able to return them to their owners in a fair fashion.
Will it be quick, painless without bumps?. Absolutely not — but the alternative is to watch the same old agonizing death of our childrens’ intellectual and moral fibre as they remain exposed to the force and fraud and fantasy of the system.
The community will be astounded by the way the freemarket steps in to fill the vacuum. We will have education with plenty of choice about quality and scope. It will be available anywhere and at anytime. It will be a potpourri — a hodgepodge — will be inconsistent and intermittent and completely UNRECOGNIZABLE compared to the present system. It will provide much better results , using LESS than 8 hours a day, LESS than 10 months a year over LESS 12 years. Everything will be entirely uncertain EXCEPT it will be the BEST. The noisy customers will clamor and demand that the businesses compete to provide any education they want. I am not advocating for vouchers, since this just insinuates the nose of the state in the private schools affairs.
We will sell off the schools — certainly not putting any more good money in after the bad — in an expeditious fashion and pay off expense and finish up contracts and return the remainder of the proceeds to the people. Without schools and teachers, we won’t need bonds or levies. As we winding down and as the concerned parents and businesses see the benefits, it should snowball.
On the matter of the mandates from Charleston and D.C. ,
Salve Sophia,
Thanks for your interest.
I do not want a “school system” or an “education system”, for the same reasons that I do not want a “food system ” or a “friend system” or a “department store system”. Essentially, they all connote a monopoly, a top down central planning and force applied to comply with rules. But fortunately, we are generally satisfied with our food, our friends, and our churches.
“The system” must go. Expenses can be cut as we start shutting down programs that obviously have no need being “taught”, since they can be “learned” other ways outside “the system”. Administrators and teachers must be fired. Private schools will meet them out on the playground and hire them on the spot — or not.. Schools must be sold — not repaired. Contracts must be cancelled and abrogated particularly if the penalty is not immediately prohibitive –and school property may cover this final expenses as well. We will not require school bonds or school levies if there are no buildings or teachers. We can see how much of the school budget is left over for distribution, and using similar means for tax collection from taxpayers, we will return them to taxpayers. I know that “education” for this county can be furnished at far less than 103 MILLION dollars per year and less than TEN THOUSAND dollars per kid.
The mandates from Charleston and D.C. are insulting — and expensive, counterproductive and distracting to boot. The free market does a fantastic job with everything, and it can provide superior results for parents of disabled kids. Teachers are lying to satisfy mandates and continue funding. Lying in the marketplace is quickly uncovered and dealt with primarily because the parties to the transaction have a vested interest in the specific transaction at hand, that many remedies are available if dissatisfied and they want to enhance the likelihood of a long term relationship with each other. Not so with “a system”.This — the area of mandates –would definitely be an area to start shutting down.
I am not talking about a voucher “system” — Ooops, there we go again with that term. The money should be returned without condition. I want education available as we have food available. Food can be obtained in myriad ways and imagine if the freemarket — i.e. customers and businesses working in selfish but mutually beneficial ways– developed and shaped education opportunities in a likewise fashion. Businesses and customers do a great job monitoring the transaction through to completion — certainly better than the state. Simply put, we woould be far better off without these mandates forcing us away from the task at hand. With my proposal, Harrison County will get the BEST education — but an education that that is totally novel, refreshigly unfamiliar and even unrecognizable, changing, responsive, brutally efficient , and potentially available anywhere and at anytime. I will need lawyers, accountants, concerned parents and communty members like yourself, the understanding of other HCBOE members who put kids and results before allegiance to a “system”‘ and a lttle luck.
If the Berlin Wall can come down and take with it the entire Eastern bloc, then I’m sure our “system” shouldn’t take as much effort and energy.
Vale Sophia!
Now, get the door, it’s Domi —- No, its the Latin teacher with the bunsen burners!
Simon, try some decaf.
If Simon gets one vote, I think we all should challenge it.
A posse ad esse
pax, Sophia
quaecum vera
Iagree. I think it wrong to stop theschool system.
Whatwill we do. Lets get someone else to lok afterthem. I think it works good. We need all the teachers and the schools to keep going for everyone eapecially for the kids. This is real nuts. Tell this guy to stop writing and get off. i DON’T LIKE IT. He makes me nervous.
Every now and again he sneaks a great point or idea in there
but makes me nervous too
Schriftlich macht frei. And with freedom , comes responsibility.
Good g*d, the kids are reading this stuff — do you want to earn their respect or get buried by their contempt.
So ‘anonymous’ , attach a creative name to your writing; the schools expect no less from your kids (a name that is, since creativity just gets in the way of “the system” and would bring unwanted attention and action).
We need to know where to send the report card.
[ Memo to self : Don't forget to discuss need for courage when shutting down "the system" ]
Hmmph.
So check out yesterday’s Charleston Daily Mail.
Just when you thought it was now to send your child to the local “system” school built-owned-staffed-managed-financed-monitored and medicated by the state, we read about another plan:
Required CPR classes.
Fine — but, no, it’s not really — though all the participants from the top down should be required to spell the unabbreviated form correctly.
Well, by my accounts, and it may not be complete at time of blog, we have “the system” purporting — in some fashion — as legitimate concerns :
(1)Guitar ed;
(2)Drivers ed;
(3)Phys ed;
(4)Sex ed;
(5)Alternative ed;
(6)Special ed;
(7)Mechanic ed;
(8)Hunters ed;
(9)ATV ed;
(10)Voters ed;
(11)Medication ed, which is absolutely not to confused with,
(12)Drug ed (and ed about how to behave when confronted suddenly without cause by a gun-toting cop trying to restrain a dog sniffing around who-knows-where in a dark room with a full bladder. Because, I guess “the system” thinks that bladder training is in their purviiew as well. These impromptu 3 hour gun ‘n’ dog classes may be scheduled during “Law ed” or “Civics/government ed” class or random drug screens, and are not to be confused with :
(13)regular exposure to the military ( but fortunately you can still choose which branch )
but, nor should the unscheduled Gun ‘n’ Dog ed class be confused with :
(14)bullying ed;
(15)parent child development ed (which, naturally includes prenatal ed and daycare ed);
(16)nurition ed, and by extension, vending machine ed and teacher supervised excursions;
(17) ‘life connections class’, which has presumably included regular class trips to see pictures of religious leaders nailed unceremoniously and hurriedly to “system” drywall (but, ya’ gotta take what ya’ get);
(18)Gun safety ed;
(19)Family and consumer science. This is where one is taught to that dependence on state social service agencies and the state command and control of the economy are legitimate. Oh, come on. Let me laugh just once. HAHAHAHA. There, I feel better. You try it now — it’ll take off that sourpuss. But keep your chequebook open because there is more to come, including;
(19)Diversified Cooperative Education [Yeah, this is one that "You, the graduate of the system" may need to look up -- so, I won't spoil it for you.]
[ OKOKOK, I'll just let you know that it was started up after release of an "Achievement of Necessary Skills Report" from the early 1990's funded by the Dept. of Labour in D.C.];
(20)Exposure of your kids to the military at regular intervals [ it's only fair since they already are have so much information on your child back at HQ -- and they know who they want ];
(21)announcements about when and where the next “Bridging the Literacy Gap” meeting to do thejob that “the system” promised it would be doing [ But 'accountability' is one of many words that are not to be found in "the system" dictionary];
(22)referrals for food and clothing and behavioral problems to other “system” sister affiliates ( such as DHHR ), but, this is not to be confused with,
(23)Liaison with courts, probation officers and ‘Home Visits”, followed by contact with police, CPS or just referral to a plain old fashioned, garden variety parenting program.
(24)Community work courses, where your child can work, well anywhere I guess they don’t have people working. Brilliant. (But why doesn’t anyone already work there?)
Cradle to grave,
family to work,
thought to not, and
peace to war.
The State — with its seductive systems — is the opiate of the masses. Don’t get your kids hooked — its worse than heroin. We need them sober even when they are not behind the wheel.
Simon, Where did you attend school? High School, College, etc?
Thank you.
Dr. McClure: Why the hell don’t you give it up? You
know that you threw your hat into the ring & thought you
were afforded a license to show your a__ to everyone in cyberworld. You are suffering from low self esteem,
and echolalia. You are delusional in thinking you have
full control of the lexicon. You were a buffoon in the UHC—didn’t they ask you to begone? You follow the
teachings of Wicca & that is sicca. How can you guide anyone if they won’t follow you do to fear & pitty. Put
your show on the road & give us a break.
If there has ever been an argument against affirmative action or quotas by the state, you’ve just made it.
So, tell us Annette : When did you realize you were a supporter of “the system”, and what do you propose to about it?
Dr.McClure: Essentially, I am committed to not voting
for you. You, my friend, are a menace to yourself, not to
mention guiding the HCBOE. You have absorbed far
too many volts. Get this: YOU ARE NOT ELECTABLE.
“Too many volts” ? , But madame, one of us is grounded — literally and figuratively — and I will leave it to the readers to figure out who just blew a fuse right here in cyberspace.
But you had your chance. I can only hope that other people see how I would guide “the system” of the HCBOE away from force, fraud and fantasy and toward liberty and reason. You are helping.
But, if you won’t tell me why you — or anyone — should support “the sytem”, then find one of the other 12 candidates to do the job.
Simple Simon: Go to the fair, get a pie or something,
sing FAR FAR AWAY. Look for the pieman. Shouldn’t
you be pretending to help some of the patients at
9:07 AM. My good man you shouldn’t have time for this.
I have advised you ad infinitum that you are not electable. Go benefit & do no harm if that is possible.
West Virginia School Building Authority will hear from the 42 counties with applications pending for funding with their agency next Mon & Tue. Harrison County is scheduled for Monday, March 17th 10:50am-11:00am. Dr. Friebel and Mr.Currey will present the Charles Pointe Elementary School project for 5 min and take questions from the School Building Authority Board for up to 5 min.
PLEASE ALL CITIZENS OF HARRISON COUNTY JOIN ME IN CONTACTING DR. MARK MANCHIN AT THE SBA AND ASK HIM TO DENY HARRISON COUNTY’S APPLICATION FOR CHARLES POINTE.
EVEN IF YOU HAVE CALLED / EMAILED LAST FALL, PLEASE DO IT AGAIN.
State of West Virginia
School Building Authority
Executive Director: Dr. Mark A. Manchin
E-mail Address: mmanchin@wvsba.state.wv.us
2300 Kanawha Boulevard, East
Charleston, WV 25311-2306
Telephone: (304) 558-2541
Fax: (304) 558-2539
OK. Fine. Forget what I’ve said.
But answer this:
If the public education does such a fine job with our kids, why do a greater percentage of public school teachers and officials/politicians keep their kids out of “the system” and give them NON public education compared to parents nationwide ?
What do all these system apparatchiks know and why don’t they tell us? Anyone? But provision of education — along with health care and food and shelter– wasn’t any different in Soviet Russia, so we can always ask the folks who ran their precious “system”. Actions speak louder than words
Kind of like the sage advice the ’scripted vets gave to the freshly minted grunts as they were assembling for their first patrol together :
“You go on ahead; It’s safer upfront “.
Dr. Friebel goes to Charleston tomorrow to make his pitch for the school at Charles Pointe. I’d like to be a fly on the wall in that room. You would need high water pants through because the s–t will be deep! I hope the SBA can see through the thin justification for this project.
Please take the time to call Dr. Manchin, or email him and tell him the “rest of the story” regarding this project. Harrison County citizens say “NO!”
Dr. Mark Manchin
WV School Building Authority
Phone: (304) 558-2541
Email: mmanchin@wvsba.state.wv.us
Since twice — TWICE !! — as many Public “System” teachers, as compared to the general public taxpayer parents nationwide, send their kids to NON Public System schools for education, do you think we could hear on this blog about the reason they removed their kids from the system ?
Why do “the system” teachers keep their kids out of the system at twice the rate of their taxpayer employers ?
Anyone?
You should be furious that they continue this Kabuke Dance, their three card Monty, their dog and pony show over and over and over to ” We, the system graduates”, all the while talking about student teacher ratios and standardized testing and funding schemes and shiny new buildings and incessant community meetings for everyone or anyone and truancy problems and sharp pencils and teacher competency and which special self identified victim group get what kind of exhorbitantly expensive or useless “desking”.
There are lots of teachers out there who know exactly what I am saying — and they are taking your tax dollars to the free market for RESULTS, not excuses or explanations…..all the while smiling like Cheshire cats.
We probably won’t hear from any of them, so well, start breathing again and cover your ears : you don’t look good cyanotic and the silence will be deafening.
So come on out of the closet Teacher123 or systemgal456.
[Follow my swinging watch, keep your eyes on my swinging watch, follow my swinging watch. That's good and now close your eyes and -- HEY YOU !! Stop watching to see where the "system" teachers send their kids. Now close your eyes again. Can't you follow simple instructions like your children ? ]
Oh, and I forgot to include one other distraction in the never-ending bread and puppet show — readily familiar and necessary for democracy to exert its tyrrannical force in a disguised fashion — and that would be:
‘Voting’, as in ‘voting’ for school bonds and superintendents– so no more than 49 % of the people are disgusted.
So, now, should ‘voting’ go before ’sharp pencils’ — or after ?.Mais, oui, oui. I also see the import .