West Virginia lost 7,200 jobs in a variety of industries between 2001 and 2007 due to the United States’ growing trade deficit with China, according to a report released jointly today by the Economic Policy Institute (EPI) and the West Virginia Center on Budget and Policy. Close to half of the jobs lost in West Virginia came from the state’s manufacturing sector, which included hundreds of lost employment opportunities for West Virginians to produce products such as textiles, wood, chemicals and metals. “Manufacturing is a vital piece our state’s economy,” said Ted Boettner, the Executive Director of the West Virginia Center on Budget and Policy. “It supports thousands of West Virginia families and employs a higher share of workers without a college degree than the rest of the economy.” READ MORE HERE
Filed under: Economic Development
So, let’s distill this argument to : We, in WV and in this country, are doing poorly, and can’t succeed, because some things are going better in some other place, and so we need to punish it.
Bulls–t !! Warm and steamy, served on fried rice, if you’d rather.
Why are we doing poorly with our hands, our reasoning minds, our resources and our nominal, traditional respect for the free market ?
Why do we need to punish someone else ?
It’s a competitive world. The state government needs to set the stage for success by getting rid of the impediments to succeed economically. Distill the argument that way and you’ll enjoy your rice more. Regards …
This is a nationwide trend how can you say the state government needs to get rid of the impediments to succeed economically? The same issues are occuring in other states..not just WV….Are these not national issues? Dont read in to that book by the economist up in Morgantown….thats the worste book ever and I have read all of Hannity’s crap.
bobby,
I haven’t read your book, but I’ve read Dr. Sobel’s book. It makes very good sense.
The only reason someone would object to the ideas is because that person is reeping the benefits off the current system.
We (our great state) are last or next to last in every category for a reason. Let’s fix those reasons already.
Enough is enough.
You havent read my book? I hope not I have not written one, but thanks for the precarious remark..By the way Hitler wrote a book too.
Dr. Sobel’s book is awful. It is full of fallacies beginning with Chapter 1,…He constantly uses rhetorical device and then fails to answer his own questions….He uses satellite photos in a non random fashion to prove development in Ohio, and Maryland and not in WV..I can show you overhead photos showing massive development in WV and not in Ohio and Maryland..I will debate this book to the Tee on every issue in it.
I will agree that the state government has impeded development too bad Dr. Sobel proves nothing of this anywhere in his book…We can debate this book….believe me I would tear Sobel a new one.
I can give you free market reasons for the down fall of every single Central Business District in this state….If you would like to hear them..I can give you free market reasons for why (Sobel uses these examples..Charlotte grew to be 10 x the size of Charleston…the glass factories left Clarksburg….and the Ashland oil refinery is in Kentucky and not WV)..
So very simply,
you think every thing is working fine the way it is?
No need to change it?
If we can agree on the meanings of words, make sure we agree with premises and use reason ( with all its’ derivatives ), we should all come to the same conclusion. So, before we go charging ahead and fix ‘it’, or even discuss ‘it’, let’s agree what ‘it’ is.
What is ‘the economy’, or ‘an economy’ ?
Let’s fleshout a description or definition, or else we’ll be talking past and around each other.
NOTE : when I note that otherwise sentient, rational, honest people are found to be continuously doing irrational and unproductive activities, I ask myself :
Cui bono ?
Of course, the state benefits from this intellectual paralysis when we discuss issues about legitimate social intercourse and activity. It benefits unjustly when it enters and firmly insinuates itself. We can quickly agree on what other things actually are — as long as the state doesn’t think it is a state issue. But, it is the ideal parasite. It makes us think we need it — it doesn’t even bother to hide or camoflage itself. But, at root, it needs to take command of the words — or at least make sure no on else can take control !! The state knows that as long as its’ subjects are not aware that they are talking around and past and over each other, then the state remains in control — all the while we think we are doing the right thing as Americans. This intellectual froth is the perfect breeding ground for the state.
So, back to basics, shall we ?
Addendum.
I think I know what ‘the economy’ or ‘an economy’ is. This description or definition is kind if neat since I find that it leads one inexorably to suggestions on how ‘it’ can not only improve, but it also has suggestions to unimprove ‘it’. It’s kind of like taking the meat off a well cooked chicken thigh — it just falls away from the hard impenetrable, lifeless bone.
P.S. The state would not approve of my idea — and would marshall its legions of well paid intellectuals and academics in their august ivory towers and media to dispute it. But, my idea is bulletproof.
Bobby and Jim Biggs,
You may be interested in this article. http://www.bdtonline.com/homepage/local_story_213222531.html?keyword=leadpicturestory
A company chooses Bluefield, Va for 171 jobs rather than Bluefield, WV, Ky and other places. Why was WV not a serious contender?
We would not put up with that kind of performance from our football coaches, but do we turn a blind eye to the inattention of our elected government officials who should be out front competing for more industry in WV? Here are some excerpts from the article.
If VA can do it, why not WV? Please re-read whatever book makes you disagree with this sentiment.
Please read the full article; these are salient out-takes.
Published: July 31, 2008 10:25 pm
BLUEFIELD, Va — A metal manufacturing company will invest $3.2 million in a new operation at the Bluefield, Va. Industrial Park and create 171 new jobs for Tazewell County, officials said Thursday.
Virginia Secretary of Trade and Commerce Patrick Gottschalk traveled to Bluefield, Va., to make the announcement on behalf of Gov. Timothy M. Kaine. Gottschalk said Metal Manufacturing and Processing, a division of Raleigh Mine and Industrial Supply, Inc., will invest $3.2 million to open a processing facility in Bluefield, Va. for both metal fabrication and truck parts remanufacturing.
Virginia successfully competed against both West Virginia and Kentucky for the project.
“Seventy-five to 80 percent of what we see in terms of economic development in Virginia is through expansion of existing businesses that are finding Virginia to be a good place to work,” Gottschalk said.
Gottschalk, who was introduced by Delegate Dan Bowling, D-Tazewell, also used Thursday’s ceremony in Bluefield, Va., as a forum to announce that the Commonwealth of Virginia has once again been ranked by Forbes.com as the “Best State for Business” in the nation for a third consecutive year.
S.R. “Dick” Smith, president and CEO of Raleigh Mine & Industrial Supply Inc., said Virginia aggressively fought for the new jobs.
“Why did we choose Virginia?” Smith said. “We had other options — Kentucky and West Virginia. But right here is why we chose Virginia. They are excited about new jobs.”
Smith said when the plant expansion was first proposed, Tazewell County Economic Development Coordinator Margie Douglas had a meeting scheduled the following day in a room packed with local and state officials, who said “yes, yes, and yes” to all of the company needs.
There are no books to re-read for my sentiment. My sentiment is based upon my own ability to analyze and rationalize data.
When I get home from work I will look some stuff and write a good solid rebuttle, but after reading the article you linked to I have to laugh, because obviously nobody read the whole article, becasue it states why this company decided to build in VA and not WVA….the article states the county of Tazwell received $100,000 check from Ned Stephenson a tobacco man to assist with the expansion of the Industrial Park to meet the needs of the Company. Nice, thanks I wander if Buck Harless expressed interest in expanding the Bluefield WV Industrial Park…..Oh yah theres more…The newest Tazwell County business gets state benefits courtesy of the VA Enterprise Zone Program, and the VA Department of Business will provide the training for the newest employees!!!!!!
HEY SIMON YOU WILL LIKE THIS…Sounds to me like the #1 state in the Country for Capitalism used some good old fashion (cover your ears) SOCIALISM to lure this company to Tazwell County….
Oh yeah one more thing look at the demographics of Southwestern VA counties and tell me that those counties are better off then counties in WV…Grundy VA is a dump, maybe someone should go down there and tell them they are in the #1 State in the Country for Capitalism….What a joke..
Seriously Im bringing the heat on this subject….cause when you go blaming others and scapegoating people for your failures (the government) You will never improve.
Bobby, you have no idea how right you are : The people of Virginia would have been EVEN better off if they had just stuck to what worked all these years — transactions free from the state — but no one gets it perfect everytime. Maybe they were reading Sobel’s book in Virginia. It could’ve been worse.Tazwell county, being, as you describe , in the poorer part of the state, would’ve been better off without that bit of state management, and really well off without any state interfernce. But, that’s usually why arreas of the country remain poor, because if parties are left to their OWN devices and allowed to CONTINUALLY trade freely, in a MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL fashion — over and over and over and over and over — they can only but PROSPER. They won’t have a choice ! It’s a done deal !
But, then the refrain, from the naysayers, is usually :
(1) See what a ( choose : little ; large ) dollop of government (again, choose : funding ; incentives ; economic planning ) can do !! And, then,
(2) Who else would do it ? How else would it get done ? Thank goodness the state stepped in to help construct (yup, choose : park ; coliseum ; bridge to nowhere ; industrial park ; plastic life-size tyrannosaurus), because, well, now, we …we..yeah, we.have a ( insert preceding choice here )
But, the honest , well meaning people of WV miss the point again – - and again and again and again : What would have been done with the resources if the government hadn’t hijacked them, and hadn’t diverted them to this-n-that project, always over budget, tardy and sprinkled with just a little bit of graft ? The Pentagon buys weapon systems to fight the last war ; state economic planners confiscate resoureces and distribute them to fight poverty resulting from their last failed foray in the marketplace.
Does anyone know if Sobel described “an economy” or “the economy” in his book ? I have read excerpts, and heard him on the radio : I only choked when he indicated that “… Lewis county had the right amount of regulation of its businesses…”…(sic)… (granted, a small complaint )
We, in WV, might be well advised to buy a few copies of the book — while we can still afford it !
Note : I left a short trailer, or prequel, to my definition/description of “economy” above. Yeah, I know that excited a whole bunch of people — people who may get cold and hungry if they don’t change their smug mindset.
Look at the rest of Virginia. Do you seriously think that northern VA would be flourishing if you could not throw a rock from Fairfax and hit that ever expanding disgusting gut that is pertruding out of the Potomac. Guess what, that is not Capitalistic money that is building northern VA…..that is mine and yours tax dollars. I dont have problem paying taxes…I like my roads, police patrols, military protection, and what not…but dont call this Capitalism…If I had the time I would write a book and call it “WHY SOCIALISM STOPS AT THE WEST VIRGINIA BORDER.”
Bobby,
You’re on a roll. I can tell your vector, momentum, spin and coordinates.
Now, let’s roll you in the right direction.
Now tell me what our “economy” or “economic activity” is..or…or…I’ll come over to your place and kiss you.
There. Whew. I brought us both out. But, I’m still waiting.
Hey Jim, tell me what laws or taxes that WV has that say Virginia or Ohio dont have that gives them an economic advantage. Nobody has ever answered that question…Dr. Sobel never answered that question.
SImon, I really think the businesses in this state use the government as a scapegoat. God forbid if it was ever actually someones fault that the cofee shop on the corner didnt make it. They didnt make it because of unfair taxes. You will never hear them they say the business didnt make it, because their coffee taste like an ashtray.
Anyway our beautiful state flourished and grew post civil war up until the Depression. What happened after the depression…Did the Deomocrats take control? You cant really count anything that happened during World War II, because really the whole country was socialist…and that was a good thing considering the circumstances.
Lets use a couple of cities as examples…
Clarksburg..the industries grew because of the proximity of fuel (coal, gas, oil) and the railroad. Not because Clarksburg’s town government gave more tax breaks than West Union’s. From 1890 until 1946 it was cheaper to bring the raw material (Iron Ore, Sand quartzite, zinc) to the fuel. After 1946 it became cheaper to transport the fuel to the natural resource. The natural gas pipeline and interstate highway system crippled Clarksburg. Clarksburg lost its economic advantage. The steel mills all left and moved north (Weirton Steel started in Summit Park as Phillips Tin and Sheet plaining mill). Why did it move to Weirton? No, Russell Sobel its not because Weirton had a tax advantage…Weirton was closer to the iron ore deposits, and it had a deep water inland port to ship and receive coal and ship the finished product cheaply. Iron ore is incredibly expensive to transport, much more so than coal…(which is heavier?)Now what has happened to Weirton Steel is it has become terribley expensive to ship the finished product…Where are all the steel mills now?..The ones that profit in this country are on the coast.
How do you fix Clarksburg? Open it up to capitalism? With the price of natural gas where its at and oil for that matter you are going to start seeing a lot more investment in this part of the state redoing the natural gas infrastructure and more drilling. I know of 4 large companies that spend a lot of capital coming in to this area…Gasoline prices are up and it is becoming more expensive to ship things…historical inertia?
Fairmont is a classic example of break and bulk development. Thanks to the Virginia State Assembly whom in 1812 decided the Mon river needed locks and dams to support river transportion. What happened was that what would become Fairmont is the navagational head of the Monongahela river. You cannot take a barge or a ship farther south than Fairmont. Since you had to unload everything that came in by ship in Fairmont and then load it on to the railoroad….it made economic sense to manufacture it there..What killed Fairmont was barge traffic ceased to exist after WWII (atleast at the same capacity)…Fairmont was not connected to the interstate until 1968….? I think, but it was very late. What can Fairmont do? High gasoline prices would be the best thing that could ever to happen to the friendly city.. Bring back the barge traffic…as gasoline and diesel rise the coast of barging it becomes more economic.
Continued..
Most river navagational heads are very well developed metropolitan regions. Minneapolis on the Mississippi, The fall line cities of Va and Carolina (Richmond, Columbia and such) two exceptions are the Allegheny, and the Monongahela. The navagational head of the Allegheny is north of Kittanning, PA and in the wilderness, and Fairmont is by no means a metro area. I can kind of figure out why Fairmont never developed the way other river cities of it’s geographical similarities did, but I never could put a finger on the Allegheny. I think Pittsburgh had something to do with it, because there are so many natural resources and raw materials in the PGH region that it “pirated ” the development of Fairmont and the Upper Allegheny.
We are not asking the right questions…I dont think the general population has any idea of how or why industry and jobs conglomerate the way they do.. We just assume the government has all of this control….and it does to an extent. The interstate system is responsible for all of our nodes of development today. Simon I think your right…we do not understand the economy, and in confusion we just point fingers and say well those lousy democarats/republicans/libertarians/envirionmentalist or whatever is to blame. I work for a very environmentally controlled industry, and never ever has one of our projects been shut down, because of a whaco greeny…I dont buy that excuse.
For example so guy wants to put a horse theme park in Lewis County. GREAT…Go for it…What he doesnt realize is that the soil in north central WV is barely arable. I mean barely. The sandstone outcrops do not drain..nor are they nutritous. There are farms, but none of them are profitable in this region, atleast not now. At one point it was profitable to have a dairy and make money off it, but it is very difficult today. Go through Lewis County and find a large farm with big barns and a large house….you will find something else on that farm..and thats a gas well pumping out about 3000 bucks a day and 300 a day in royalties. Guess who the horse farm park is going to blame for when it becomes incredibly expensive to feed the horses, because his land cannot produce the amount of food it needs….The government..who else?
I hear you guys on the economy. The history of boom towns and their decline are what they are…
My question is concerning how our government regulates our business. Not just in regulating business owners, but the people’s business in our state. For instance many states do not have a personal property tax on vehicles as we do here in WV. Many states have a lower gasoline tax than we do. No sales tax on food. Sales tax capped at $300 for vehicle purchases. Etc… This is only a few areas that make other states more affordable for the individual to live and “operate” their life. This does not take into account the fact that our insurance rates on auto and real property is higher than in most other areas of the country too. I know these things from personal experience living in other states and talking to others from WV who have moved on.
If we take a look at the business owner side; we have to pay property tax on vehicles and equipment we use Every year we own the vehicle/equipment. Not just at the time of purchase like in other areas of the country. There is this tax we pay called business and occupation tax. This tax is based on our gross not our net income. Although it is not a huge expense, B&O tax is part of the overhead that many other areas of the country do not have to account for.
So my question is; “does the state bare any responsibility for creating this environment we have”?
And for what it’s worth, Dr. Sobel struck a chord with me where he speaks about the Toyota plant in Buffalo WV. For all of the fan fair and touting by US Senator Jay R. and Gov. Joe about the economic opportunity in WV and “Open for Business”, then why did the state have to buy and now owns the equipment at the Buffalo plant? The state of WV bought the robotic equipment and leases it back to Toyota. Why? Because the state of WV has a business tax on equipment (every year), and Toyota would not have been able to build and operate this plant in WV as cheaply as they could have elsewhere, where they do not have this annual tax on equipment used for business. So the state circumvented (or found the loop hole in) the tax code to help a businesses bottom line.
It seems to me the state made a good judgment call when deciding that we need to change a rule to create the environment needed to attract Toyota. Except one thing, they left 1.6 million others under the regressive tax structure to fend for themselves.
Like I have said in previous post all of this data is kept track of and measurable. I dont know the circumstances of the Toyota Plant deal. I know WV has an investment tax on equipment. Other states dont have this tax, but they have other taxes we do not have, and they calculate them differently. That is why it has to be done quanatatively and statistically….Why didnt Sobel do this? If you have a PHD in economics you better be skilled in statistics.
The gasoline tax is a product of our environment. The gas tax pays for upkeep and new roads and bridges. Our winters are a constant freeze and thaw, and settlements are in valleys. We have a lot of bridges. Drive out to Kansas..Think they have a cheaper gas tax? If the politicians and DOH are pocketing the money then that is not a function of bad tax, thats just robbery.
For the record I do not think our tax structure is fair. What really is not fair is when companies makes the states compete with each other, and then turn around and make the states and sometimes counties and sometimes cities drop there taxes all together to fit the needs of this company, and then push the taxes over to the population to pick up.
Looking at what has happened the last 20 years in this country…I can say (based on my opinion) that we are no longer a capatilistic country, but we are not a socialist country either…..It is some strange evoloutionary form of Feudalism we got going on around here….and it kind of sucks.
Watch the graphs and the statistical quantitative explanations and the experts.
Back and forth.
Here’s another political promise about a theory.
Keep watching.
Back and forth.
Back and forth.
Numb and accepting yet ?
No ?
Here’s a special tax incentive for future financing the project with other people’s money !!
Sleepy yet ?
Still questioning or resistant ?
Oh, look over here. Here’s a union official and one of our state employed statistcians from the university talking about “fair wages” and how “we’ have to pull together because “we got another batch of numbers to show you — that are better than the previoius batch”
Do you believe the puppet meister yet
As you sit in your chair watching the state pull rabbits out of the hat and spin reams of self serving tables and elaborate on their last batch of excuses cheerfully reported by the Charleston Gazette, the state is peeking out from behind the curtain. They are watching to see if your muscles are weakening. They know that the first stages of state success are when the people are busy and occupied — mesmerized by the state cheerleaders, too busy working to make tax money for the state, repeating what they heard in public school or college about the priorirties of the state and the collective.
But just as your muscles atrophy at the beginning as state propaganda marathon runs its course and seeps into every one of your muscle fibres, the state expects more. Much more.
The state expects your intellectual and moral and economic faculties to atrophy and shrink and blend with the state.
The state — the perfect parasite :”We are the state”. We even talk like the state and use its version of history and its observations and its willful blindness and its excuses and…its’ words from behind the curtain !! The words ; the curtain ! Fait accompli — or, as the Francophobe, GW put it –Mission Accomplished !
The state will do everything in its power to stop people from harnessing their courage and reason to tear down the curtain — so meticulously sewn together and lovingly cared for by the public schools and the obsequious media and the fearmongering leftist and rightist think tanks and the state funded centers of “higher education” and special interest groups on the payroll.
Morality and liberty trump a wheelbarrow full of flimsy alibis and distractions pushed by a state usher at halftime through the audience.
Mr. Bobby, let’s see you tear off the blindfold, shake off the cobwebs, harness your faculties casually dismissed, stand up and “tear down this curtain”.
Your children and grandchildren are waiting and watching.
They were given tickets to the state performance by their teacher at their high school graduation ceremony. But didn’t you know ?
And now the state usher is pulling some empty chairs up beside you and calling them over to sit beside you.
So, Bobby, what is “family” ; what is “economics” ?