This week, Forbes came out with their annual list of the best states for business. States were ranked based on six criteria: business costs, labor pool, regulatory environment, growth prospects, economic climate and quality of life. Virginia was ranked first. West Virginia last. Here’s the list.
Filed under: Economic Development
Houses and elephants are made up from categories of things. Depending on who and where you are, and how well you can see and touch and smell, you can come up with different categories — all valid in and by themselves. But you can’t say an elephant IS a certain smell and sound ; nor can you say a house IS something with between 50,000 and 60,000 nails and sits on the ground.
And you can’t say “an economy” , or “business” if you’d rather, is something with six categories or something that we argue about and point fingers at every four years. If we don’t know what is, how do we know if a category is valid. Maybe it’s really not valid and were worse off when things are examined post facto
We can all agree on what a house is, we can all agree a house needs continuous attention and maintenance, and we can all agree where nail #55,387 is going.
What if we were actually talking about substantially different things when we taked about a house? What if some peoople didn’t know what a house really was– but they just felt they did, and didn’t want to be left out of a discussion about something everyone said was important. What if they felt the nails WERE in fact the house ; or a hairy leg WAS in fact an elephant ; or “fair wages” WERE the economy. This may be the only perpective they know. This may be the only way they feel they can participate — but, when the blindfold is lifted things are different.
Cui bono ? Well it sure as heck ain’t all those West Virginians shaking nails and hairy legs and screaming at each other, is it ?
Steel yourself — take a swig from my flask — and take a moment to lift the blindfold.
Now, what is “the economy” ?
Hey we ranked 50th again…but we ranked as 14th best when it comes to business cost labor energy and taxes….I thought taxes was our downfall? Looking at this survey I am a bit confused at the criteria….They seem to have confused a bit…cause and effect, but that is normal when reading studies. Gosh, this is boring. Anyway Ciriteria 1. Business Cost is a cause of a bad economy, we ranked 14th….Criteria 2..confused the hell out of me…We are ranked 49th…It measures educational attainment…Cause of…Net migration…effect of…..and projected population growth….effect of…(See were I am going?) Criteria 3..Confuses the hell out of my cat…it seemingly categorizes tort climate, incentives (what incentives?)…transportation and bond ratings…I dont know what transportation and tort climate have in common, but I still have not been answered by lawyers why are tort climate is so bad….Criteria 4..Economic Climate rank measures…job income…effect of, gross state product growth..an effect of…unemployment and presence of big companies…this one can be argued, I would have to read in to this one….Criteria 5…is all effects of…and finally index 6…well thats another one that could be argued but it appears they all could be causes of or effects of…..
Isnt this site run by a lawyer? I want your opinion on this study….you should be trained on analysis. The only categorization that holds any water is the first one, and we ranked 14th. I will at some point read the sources…of this data, but that doesnt matter now, because even if the data is good, whomever put it together is not that bright.
This is my argument. I dont know if it is some kind of nationwide conspiracy to downgrade us constantly, or what the hell is going on. I think they want WV as the next Chile? I sure hope not.
Sobell, I have a big problem with him. If we are so bad, and are taxes, and business climate is so bad then why hasnt anyone ever quanatively decifered it? This study here is hog wash and is no better than some Vogue questionaire on how many times you wash your hair a week.
Everything Sobel talks about in his book is measurable. There is data on this…no where in his book does he cite this data, nor does he even bother to put it together let alone analyze it. Each chapter begins with a question or a hypothesis…and in NONE of the chapters does he answere his question. Its a strange slight of hand trick he pulls. I caught him on this when he was in Clarksburg at RCB High…..I could have cornered him on some of it, but I didnt feel the need to…..after all it was his bbq, and no one in the audience had any clue what I was talking about anyway.
I have yet to see a quanatative study on WV and its tax structure as compared to bordering states. I have yet to be told of any court cases that proves our tort climate sucks (Chesapeake, and Columbia and other E and P Companies deserved what they got), or any specific laws that restrict us. Help me out here…..find me something anything….Dont tell me my state sucks and then throw a study that proves nothing at me…Dont take my tax dollars and send them to Northern Virginia…give them to defense contractor and then tell me my state is not as capatilsistic enough. Dont tell me my court system is a judicial hell hole, and then not be able to cite a single case to prove even any smoke coming from that hole. Dont tell me Im overweight, stupid, poor, and want something for nothing all the time, and then prove your point with some report that my Geography 101 class could have debunked easily. I get sick of it….
Bobby,
You’re still definitely rolling and roiling, and as such, I’m not going to plant a wet one on you — even if I could catch you…You’ve taken a swig from the flask of the unbelieving skeptic, and I can tell you’ve been messing around with the “blindfold”. The blindfold is askew and you are looking askance.
Let’s see if we can advance the discussion about the economy — if we know what something is, it helps.
What if the economy — like love, relationships, sports, education, addiction,etc, was something that could not be described by a mathematical term or categories.What if these matters — human matters, mind you — are not best described or defined by categories or mathematics ? I think human endeavors are best OBSERVED and UNDERSTOOD in terms of morality This immediately separates the study of economics and marriages from the study of rocks and teeth.
We can measure the EFFECTS of the economy in terms of money and jobs. But just as diamond rings and offspring and “epidemic divorce rates” do not describe a marriage — only some of the the results — maybe we need to concede that we are measuring, when we should be observing and understanding. We should not continue the state conceit, that morality and the individual are not relevant, and that utopia can be found with a majority of voters or with a better sliderule or electronic ankle bracelet
My contention is that the descripton of the economy should not invoke math or graphs or theories or statistics. It should not homogenize or atomize men. It should understand the nature of man. It has been set up this way on purpose by the state to further its’ goals. The state can only use force and fraud– if we think it should use anything –and makes us believe it knows everything. This is not at all surprising since, in public school, the state teaches us essentially everything up to, and including, the notion that the state knows everything !
If the state can disabuse us of the notion that some matter can be understood without morality or the individual or numerous interacting individuals, then it is easy to have us believe that the next equation, or economic development plan, or tax reform will do the trick to fix the economy.
Society is made up of many individuals all going about their affairs in a peaceful, voluntary and honest fashion. We have been sold — or rather, ‘forced to accept’ — the fraudulent notion that the state knows best because they have their intellectual bodyguards — statisticians, psychologists, economists, public school teachers, researchers, social workers, regulators, tax experts — tell us over and over and over that plans and graphs and numbers trump morality and the individual. The notion of morality — individuals with their property –is like splashing cold water in the face of the wicked witch.
The state absolutely needs to make sure that you have no interest in looking for cold water — and puts great effort incontinuing the charade, staying behind the curtain, and paying its handsomely paid minions to entertain the masses between acts with bread and circuses and equations and professors and graphs.
We need to separate the individuals making up society from the state.
When we in WV stop putting faith in the force and fraud of the state, then we will advance ‘economically’. That takes courage from the audience — not another state plan behind the curtain.
So, what is a marriage ; what is an economy ?
yaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnn………zzzzzzzzzzzz
Bobby, you write, about the Forbes list and Sobel’s book :
..” they seem to have confused a bit…cause and effect, but that is normal when reading studies. Gosh, this is boring’.
“…but that doesn’t matter now, because even if the data is good…”
“well that’s another one that could be argued, but it appears they all could be causes of or effects of…”
“Everything Sobel talks about in his book is measurable”
and then
“why hasn’t anyone quantitatively deciphered”
…nationwide conspiracy”
‘…because even if the data is good…”
Bobby,
I sense frustration. You admit confusion. But, I sense you are closing in on the critical issues. You’ve seemingly struggled to get yourself — whether you know it or not — onto the fence. You are expending effort justifying this ambivalent position — occasionally blaming Sobel. I think this might be helpful to kock you off the fence into the green grass — or away from the curtain.
You and Sobel are talking in regards to something akin to the ‘elephant ‘, as mentioned above.
He is describing the ‘elephant’ in a dynamic and static fashion, moving smoothly between the mcrosopic level ( as with a man ) and the macroscopic level (as with men ). Importantly , he is not using state language or premises, up to, and including, including the premise the state language is optimal. He is talking about the men, making up society, and their behavior. He sees no need to use state vocabulary, is dismissive of their attempt to monopolize their definitions, and ridicules their pyrotechnic special effects.
It would appear that you are talking about what leads up to the elephant’, such as, loosely put or analogized : Something that is around when the elephant food or elephant trainer arrive on the scene ; something that is produced by two elephants ; something that makes you think of an elephant. You are using state language. The state argument can never be punctured if we accept their ever shifting control of the location of the trenches punctuating the terrain. They know this. Throw water in their face. Morality and individual rights are puncture proof, plus they don’t melt away with a little water.
Separate yourself from the force, fraud and faith of the state ; reject their words and premises — everything else flows naturally thereafter. You are left with only , liberty, reason and reality. It’s a done deal.
Wasn’t this chain supposed to concern WV’s rank in one particular survey as 50th in overall business climate??? However did it get derailed by all of this pure drivel??
I think we can all somewhat agree that WV’s overall economic condition is bad. We don’t need benchmarks and vague statistics to prove that. Just look around……our state has remained stagnant in population for over 50 years at least, while the rest of the nation has grown significantly. Our cities have nearly all dropped in population and – with the exception of Morgantown, Martinsburg and Charleston – are totally run down! Look at Clarksburg, fo instance. It’s nearly a ghost town! Many of our younger people leave the state for better opportunities elsewhere, leaving our state with one of the oldest and poorest populations in the US.
Just look around folks…and take a trip outside WV once in a while. See what is happening elsewhere that is NOT happening here! Are we 50th?? Who really knows, but one thing seems clear to me……we’re definitely way down near the bottom, at least from the overall “eyesore” perspective and the number of real teeth per person measure!
Your right Dick, but I think we need to figure out why we are the way we are….Is it because of our state government? Or our taxes, our judicial system…I dont think so……every state in the union has the issues, and no one has ever proved that ours is worste. I know our economy is worst, but why? I think our problem is our state lost its economic advantages we had from the past. The transportation networks of the railroad and rivers built this state, and connected it to the markets for cheap and safe transportation of our goods….We lost that….I think we need to find out what our economic advantages are and capitalize on them instead of always trying to pin on the government and taxes which appears to me to be a constant throughout the nation, except in instances where they actually give companies tax money. Like I said earlier we try to put horse farms where there can never be a horse farm…We give tax money to Cabellas to create minimum wage jobs. We give tax money to private developers to build developments where there is no demand for them. There are problems with our economy..the answer is out there…I just dont think anybody actually cares what the correct answer is as long as there is someone easy to blame for the problem.
Cui bono ?
Who benefits if the so-called ‘free’ individuals in West Virginia do not review what is going on in the “economy” — and drilll down deep and ask :
“What is an economy ?”
“What is any economy ?”
We know what a marriage is — the union of two people yielding new responsibilities and privileges for each in terms of physical and emotional and financial matters — and follow its’ ebbs and flows. But we know that the ebbs and flows are not the marriage. Adultery and divorce do not make up or describe a marriage. Following this lead and despite state concerns to the contrary, ‘the economy’ is not money that people are left with after April 15th and it is definitely NOT synonymous with the annual state government budget, althoough the state would have evryone believe they arre one and the same !!
So, let’s take a stab at “an economy” :
The change in wealth over a period of time amongst a group of people resulting from the continuous peaceful, voluntary, honest and mutually beneficial exchanges of goods and services, by rationally selfish and free individuals pursuing their goals and values in a certain jurisdiction where property rights and contracts will be enforced.
[ as an aside, notice what is NOT included in my description !! ]
If it’s not good, fine — someone make it better !
If it’s satisfactory, then how does it help to identify how we have strayed in West Virginia, and does it direct ways to improve it ?
So, let’s see how close West Virginia hews to this description.
Would West Virginia be better off or worse off if people could exchange goods and services more easily. Of course, this is arhtorical question — it had to be asked — and the answer is YES. Say for example, if someone could offer to teach — without an expensive 4 year teachers certificate issued by the state — in a building that did not have a certificate from the state that it had passed a lengthy building checklist ? How about if we repealed all the state occupational licensing statutes and state inspections ?
Would West Virginia be better off if it was a right to work state ?
How about if we repealed state sales tax laws so that you could exchange goods without reporting the transaction to the state ?
Can you think of ways that the state — the perfect parasite — has insinuated itself into the above definition, and twisted it. Not only has the state built up its power to tell people what they can do and how they can do it, and even how much money the state should receive, but they have hijacked the definition of the economy and the market.
So, I guess what I’m saying is, if :
(1) one thinks the above definition of an economy is correct, and ;
(2) we think we in West Virginia have strayed from it, and ;
(3) we do in fact want to become wealthy,
then should know that :
(a) we will not become wealthy if we stick to the same old “same old same old” and
(b) we will only become wealthy if we hew closer to the definition of a ‘wealth producing economy’.
We need to clear off the cobwebs and say :
“No, we don’t agree with this-that–or-the-other tax or law or agency. It only benefits parasites — you, the state, and its cheeleaders and hangers-on and the special interest groups of the day. Leave us alone to make West Virginia to be # 1. You’ve trusted us all these years as we followed all your enthusiastically endorsed taxing schemes and laws and agency inspections, all the while we went down the tubes.
Go to the books which indicate when a tax or agency or law or Federally funded program was implemented. Check to see the date. If the date says anything later than 1932, then take a thick Sharpie to the entry, and repeat this over and over and over to repeal every single law and tax and agency and mandate set up in the last 70 years. We shouldn’t show any preference or prejudice — jettison them all. That would be a good start. If West Virginia does not quickly become #1, the people of West Virginia can always come back and demand more.
So, you may or may not agree with this idea of mine. Fine. I’m not so much worried if we can’t agree quickly and completely. I am much more worried that we can agree but the necessary courage has been sapped over the past 70 years and we will continue to participate in this evil and irrational state directed activity.
At this point, I am not going to say something sappy like : “look in the mirror”. That’s a waste of time and I hate being unproductive.
No, I think it would be much more appropriate framed : ” look at your children and grandchildren”. They are the eight ball. You talk to them on the matter of courage and how courage is seen in so many ways. But, it has to be seen to work. That’s an idea that has to come off the paper. Self pride and courage — bulletproof ; unstoppable.
Cheers, good day and good luck.
Oh, but of course, it is convenient — and natural — for people to make use of plausible deniability to avoid the stigma of cowardice and other base qualities.
To wit : Neither “We” nor any of the individuals in the group can be accused of cowardice since it is perfectly clear that “we” were still respectfully listening to all observations, conclusions and suggestions — giving equal weight and consideration to any and all ideas, whims, and instincts — and so “we” weren’t really at the point where there was any identifiable plan presented that “we” could act on.
Uh huh. I see.
And explain again to me — and to your children and grandchildren : Why and how did “we” ever push the British out of the colonies?
Cheers, good night and good luck.
WV ranked low in quality of life. Wow! We don’t have any real natural disasters to worry about and we even have a Starbucks.
This state floods all the time. We do have natural disasters. Dont go to Mullens and say you dont have real natural disasters…you wont make it out. There are a lot of variables that go in to quality of life. It depends upon which ones a study picks and chooses.
Relax everyone. Relax.
It appears that we need not worry about being 50th anymore.
No, Paulson and Bernanke have put pay to this concern once and for all. They’ve decided to make every state “poor” by nationalizing the economy
They have proposed stepping up to rescue the economy ( read : their CEO buddies ) with 700 billion dollars of YOUR money. Oh, they’ll go through the usual and customary gyrations, disguising and distracting by way of ‘tax reform’, printing money ( no more tens and twenties — just 50’s and C notes )and begging for loans from overseas They know this is only a down payment — but when has the state stuck to any estimate : time and again, they’re all lowballed . Easier to swallow.
So, Paulson and his sidekick, Bernanke, will become the proud owners of the largest bunch of poorly maintained slums AND also have the keys to the largest fleet of rusty 8 cylinder gas guzzlers Iin the country. That is until they hand them off — at firesale prices — to their friends, lobbyists, contributors, party merry makers, relatives, sympathizers and bed partners (paid and unpaid alike ).
Shocked. Shocked ! Can’t be done ! Wouldn’t be done !
But this is exactly what happened when the USSR unwound around 1990 with its death rattle : factories and mines and real estate and other ’state’ property was practiucally handed over to the same groups of people noted above — with one difference : they spoke Russian !
Kind of surreal, watching The War on Terror in Iraq/USA/Everywhere while having a front row seat as your country unwinds domestically. Keep a good grip on your family, your macaroni and your gold. And be prepared to keep and bear arms — the peashooters the state permits, that is.
Oh, that cave over there — yeah, that one — ITS MINE!